Sara Emmerson: Welcome back to That Sounds Risky. Today, I am so excited because today we have with us an incredible guest who's also a friend. Her name is Olivia Curry, and Olivia is a Chicago-based professional middleweight boxer, filmmaker, director, and editor whose story proves it is never too late to pursue an unexpected calling. Talk about sounding risky. While studying film and French at Northwestern University, Olivia joined the Muay Thai group on a whim. When she couldn't get matched for a fight, she entered the Chicago Golden Globes and discovered a passion that would eventually take her to boxing's biggest stages. After approximately 30 amateur bouts, Olivia turned professional in 2021 and has since competed twice for the WBC and WBA middleweight world titles. Outside the ring, Olivia works as a director and editor at Picture North, Where her experience as an athlete influences the stories she tells, especially those exploring identity, performance, and our relationship with our bodies. Whether she is behind the camera or inside the ring, Olivia's life is a powerful example of what can happen

when we take a chance on something we never expected. Now That Sounds Risky. Please help me welcome Olivia. Olivia, thank you so much for being here today.

Olivia Curry: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk more with you.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, me too. So, I mean, we talk about all the time on this podcast about people taking risks and stepping in the ring and doing things that nobody else has done before. And you literally are doing that. So take us back to the beginning when boxing wasn't even a thing and you were living life, and then all of a sudden you decided to take this risk.

Olivia Curry: Yeah, I didn't grow up with boxing. It wasn't something that my family was watching on TV. I didn't have an older brother or anything who was into it. This was totally absent in my childhood. So I didn't get into any sort of combat sports until college. And I was working over one summer, kind of just doing my work-study job, right? All my friends had gone. I didn't really have anyone to hang out with. I was kind of going through some stuff at the time, um, mental health-wise. I wasn't like sleeping well. I had been kind of partying in college a lot, and I thought, let me get to a gym and try to at least like take a workout class, something, right?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: There was a boxing gym, um, that isn't there anymore, but it used to be, um, in Evanston, Illinois, above the 7-Eleven, uh, and they had $40 a month.

Sara Emmerson: Of course it was right above the 7-Eleven. Why not?

Olivia Curry: Yes. And It was like your classic, like old school kind of sort of dirty boxing gym, you know? But they had a sign in the window that said Muay Thai. And I think I had just watched like Ong-Bak, like some Thai martial arts movie with the film kids that I knew for fun. And I thought, I don't know, that sounds sort of interesting. Like, why not? Yeah, take a class. So a friend and I started taking classes. That friend, Ended up kind of dropping out later, but I stuck with it mostly because I found that I was dealing with all this kind of insomnia. And the only way that I could sleep well at night at the time was after like 3 hours of going to the gym and just like brutalizing my body, hitting the bag, just like wearing myself out, right? So yeah, Muay Thai is where it started. And eventually the people who were running that program said, do you wanna fight? They couldn't find me a Muay Thai fight, but they found me a boxing fight in the Chicago Golden Gloves, which is, you know, Golden Gloves is kind of the very old traditional tournament that happens all over the country for regular boxing. And

that was my first fight. And after that, I kind of fell in love with combat sports and I had a Muay Thai, you know, amateur career. Had about 11 Muay Thai fights, um, and then totally transitioned over into amateur boxing. And, uh, the rest is history, I guess.

Sara Emmerson: Amazing. So take me back to that moment. You're walking in above a 7-Eleven just for a class. How do you go from that to, sure, why not? Let me do competitions. And why don't, why not? become semi-pro at this?

Olivia Curry: Yeah, I mean, I definitely did not think at the time that I started that I was going to eventually go pro. I didn't even think I was going to have a fight. That wasn't my goal. I just was basically taking a fitness class, right? Um, and trying to learn a new skill. But it seems like—

Sara Emmerson: Because the Muay Thai you were just doing for fun, that was like the semi— Like, let's see. And then you went professional. You went into professional with the boxing, or were you professional with the Muay Thai too?

Olivia Curry: No, I was, I was just an amateur, um, doing my Muay Thai fights. But I did get to a pretty high level where it looks a little more like professional, like no headgear, smaller gloves, no shin guards for the kicks. Like, you know, it was pretty still risky, I guess. And, um, yeah. damaging sort of fighting. But it wasn't until 2021 that I went pro in boxing. I'd kind of swapped over by that point. But yeah, I had no— I just kept moving the goalposts. So like, Hmm. every time I would, I would start to get better. And that first one was like, well, maybe I'll actually, maybe I'll try sparring, right? Maybe I've taken these classes, learned some technique, maybe I'll try to spar. And then after that, after a while it's, well, maybe I'll have an amateur fight. Maybe I'll try to fight. And after a while it became, at least in boxing, well, maybe I'll try to go outside of Chicago and into some of these national tournaments. Maybe I'll try to make it to Olympic trials, which I missed by one split decision loss right before COVID And then that's the point where it was that question of, Well, what do I do now? Do I wait 4 more years for another Olympics?

Do I quit boxing or do I go pro? And that's when I went pro. So it was kind of just like, I never quite, and then of course now, you know, being pro, I never even thought I'd get here. And now the goalpost has moved to, I wanna win a world title, right? I wanna be champion of the world. It's like that's—

Sara Emmerson: Of course you do.

Olivia Curry: Kind of crazy.

Sara Emmerson: Why wouldn't you? Yeah. Well, I love that thought where you talk about just moving the goalpost because Really, oftentimes, it's traumatic moments or hard moments. I'd love to think that we all grow in the mountaintop moments that are just wonderful. But often, the growth happens when we're in those desperate places. And it sounds like that desperation that you were in, in that college season, led you to seek out something new, to try something different.

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And anyone that's listening here today, if you're in a season where you feel that desperation, Uh, pay attention to the things that are new around you because those can be the things that actually become lifesavers. Sometimes literally and sometimes just from an emotional and, um, energy level to, to give you something new, a, a new hobby to go after. So it, it sounds like it started as a hobby and then you were like, wait, I, I'm pretty good at this.

Olivia Curry: I definitely wasn't good when I started, but I think it was, it was giving something to me and even like, I mean, even now, my coach and I talk about this all the time. Like, I don't think that I was the most talented person at this. I'm still not, even at the professional level. I don't think I'm the most naturally athletic. I'm kind of just a dork, you know, but I'm a dork who's very stubborn and persistent. And so sometimes it's just about like showing up, like being the person who continues to show up when other people drop out. So if it gets hard, You know, not just not quitting is enough to like get you to that next level. And you'll grow skills whether you want to or not during that time too, you know?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. What, when you started in the Muay Thai before you even went into the Golden Glove, gloves, right?

Olivia Curry: Not the globes.

Sara Emmerson: Well, you're in films. I know, I was gonna say you actually probably are one of the only people that I would be like, yeah, she's got a Golden Globe.

Olivia Curry: Haven't quite gotten there yet.

Sara Emmerson: Hey, never say never, right?

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. But for you, what else did that, 'cause martial arts can teach you so many things, not just physically, but what were you learning about yourself mentally and emotionally? And from that standpoint too, what was it teaching you?

Olivia Curry: Yeah, I think martial arts teaches you a lot of mental toughness. Fighting can give you a lot of mental toughness, and also you have to have some of that in order to like progress as well.

Sara Emmerson: Right.

Olivia Curry: Like you really see that sometimes in the first sparring session. You can tell now I'm experienced and I can tell if there's new people in the gym, it's their first time sparring. That's very scary for people when they're not used to it. It's super unnatural to get hit in the face, right? And the people who, you know, go towards the fire are the ones that are, that you think, okay, they might not have any skills yet, But they have what it takes to move forward. And some people turn their back. They say, actually, actually, I want to get out. I don't want to do this anymore. I've seen that. And that's fine too. But those are not people who need to be boxing at a competitive level. It's not the sport for them, which is fine. It's important to know that early on.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, definitely. What do you think gave you the grit? to not turn around and get out of the ring?

Olivia Curry: Well, I did mention I'm pretty stubborn. I think that might be a core trait. I think actually growing up, I said, you know, I wasn't really an athlete. I was more focused on school, on the arts. But I did always have some kind of sports going on in my life as a kid, 'cause my dad was a super accomplished athlete himself. And he had all girls. And I've been thinking about him a lot 'cause he actually passed away this past spring. So sort of recently. And so he—

Sara Emmerson: I'm so sorry for your loss.

Olivia Curry: Thank you. He might not, you know, get to see me ever get this world title if I manage to make that happen. But I do credit him with kind of being the person in my life who developed that mental toughness. You know, he wasn't like, not in like a crazy pushy sports dad way. Sometimes he, you know, it went up to that borderline a little bit, but he just like instilled that value in me as a kid of, oh, if you're scared, like it's okay to be scared, but the way forward, basically fear can't, fear won't prevent you from achieving your goals unless you let it. Like you can achieve the goal while scared. And I think that's something That you have to accept in boxing for sure. It's like, it's going to be, even when you're really experienced, it's going to be scary to go out in front of a bunch of people and have someone trying to knock you unconscious. That's just a scary thing. But like, you just decide in your brain at a certain point, I'm going to do it whether or not I'm scared. And you just like ride with that fear and do it anyways. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: For you, um, to be in that moment, to take it from, this is something I am skilled to do that I'm just moving the bar at, mm-hmm, to taking it to a professional level. One, I'm sure that was really interesting. I'd love to hear what that was like for your family, for you to say, hey, look, I'm going pro at boxing now. And I'd love to hear your dad's perspective on that too. But, um, your own internal, talk to us about that risk because that's a huge risk. to think, hey, I'm gonna put some of my career on hold. I'm gonna put some of the things like, even your, we talked a little bit before we started recording. I'm sure we'll talk about that too. You've put some of your life on hold for this risk in, in many areas. So tell me about that, that shift of like, I'm going pro and I know the risk physically and I know the risk for my life, um, that I need to pause for a bit.

Olivia Curry: Yeah, it, it's funny cuz I think sort of recently I was just like cleaning out some drawer in my apartment and I found an old notebook where I had literally made like a pro and con list, um, about this. And there were like a lot of cons on the list. What were some of them?

Sara Emmerson: Tell us some of the cons.

Olivia Curry: I mean, uh, well, I mean, like, I could get knocked out.

Sara Emmerson: I'm sure that's one.

Olivia Curry: Yeah. But that one wasn't even the biggest, like the physical risk. I had already been doing the amateur boxing at a high enough level that I was kind of already experiencing a lot of that and like used to that. It was more the other stuff you were talking about, like My career in film might be put on hold, or it might develop more slowly, right? 'Cause I just won't have as much time. Um, I might make less money than I otherwise would. At the time I was in a relationship, I thought maybe this is something he wouldn't like. Maybe this is gonna cause friction in our relationship. Um, maybe my— I won't have a lot of social time for friends.

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Olivia Curry: And those other friends, family, other people who are important to me, Because when you're in camp, it's really like you can't eat anything, you can't go out for drinks, you can't stay out late, you can't— you have a very regimented schedule, you lose time. So all of that stuff was on the list. And then the pro list was like, essentially, I want to. And I wrote like some bullet point that was kind of tongue in cheek, even for myself, I think, that just said like, eternal glory.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: That's kind of what— Ultimately, I've always been the kind of person who I think does take a lot of risks in life, not always positively either. Like, this can go either way. But my, my poor mom, who you asked about how my parents reacted, she was like a nurse practitioner who specialized in like, like neurology. So she was not a big fan about this, right? Of course not. But she's always said, like, ever since I was a kid, I basically essentially did what I wanted.

Sara Emmerson: Wanted to anyway.

Olivia Curry: Which is always a good quality, but like, I don't know.

Sara Emmerson: Hey, at least she definitely knew the risks then, and she could tell you what to watch for and what to do. That's true.

Olivia Curry: That's, that's true. She's come around. She, um, yeah, she, she didn't used to watch my fights, and then she came in person to the— this last one that was supposed to happen a few weeks ago. Which didn't happen, but she was there.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. We'll talk about that in a few. In a few. Yeah. But, um, yeah, no. Well, that's, uh, obviously I, I love hearing the pro and con list and I love that, hey, there's gonna be times in your life, um, you personally, and then if you're listening where you have the pros and cons and the cons are way greater, they might outweigh it 10 times.

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: But the pro is you just have something in your gut. You just know I'm supposed to pursue this, and if I don't at least try, I will always regret it.

Olivia Curry: Mm-hmm. That, that's the other thing that was actually on the list. Like, I don't wanna be 80 years old and be one of these people thinking back like, wow, I could have done this, I could have done that. Like, I'd rather be the person who did that.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely. Um, have you heard, I'm sure you have, but that, uh, quote by Theodore Roosevelt?

Olivia Curry: Yes. The man in the arena.

Sara Emmerson: The man in the arena. I'm gonna read a little bit of it, um, for us here just for a second. Um, if you haven't, go up, uh, go ahead and go online and look this up because it's really powerful. But he says, it's not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who's actually in the arena. Whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he or she fails, at least fails while daring greatly. And it's that part of that, you're, there's a part of us innately as human beings that want to dare greatly. That's why we watch the movies. You get to edit a lot of these things, but people don't want a story where the person kind of tried, right? They gave it a little bit.

Olivia Curry: You want the stakes.

Sara Emmerson: You want the stakes. And that's what makes your story so incredible is that you just said, hey, I, I don't know if I'll be good at this. I don't know if I will win, but I'm gonna try.

Olivia Curry: Mm-hmm.

Sara Emmerson: And so 2021. You go all in.

Olivia Curry: Yeah. And it's funny that I think about that quote you read all the time, actually, because one of the hardest differences between the professional boxing career and the amateur kind of doing it for fun on the side thing is you have suddenly so many more eyes on you doing it. And, or it seems that way, especially in the age of social media. And this is something that probably applies Like to all—

Sara Emmerson: Anything professional. Yeah.

Olivia Curry: Anything, right?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Business owners, athletes.

Olivia Curry: Yeah. Yeah. But then there is something that is so unique about boxing to me where it is theater, it is a performance, but it's very real, right? So you're really going in there sometimes on a very big stage. Like I had one fight, the biggest, most dangerous fight I was ever in at the time, and it was on a Jake Paul card with 20,000 people. in a huge stadium. It was incredible. But literally then you are the person in the middle. Everyone else is just watching and you're the person who actually has to do the thing. And that feels like so much pressure, but it also, I think, is like why I keep doing this, 'cause it's so cool to kind of be, have this main character moment once in a while.

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Olivia Curry: And like, I, the other thing that I always think about with that quote is, you know, is, Theodore Roosevelt, it's of the time, right? It's the man in the arena. At the moment when he said that, it was only men who were boxing, right? Correct.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: Now there's something to me too that feels very liberating to have these eyes on me. And I don't really like that in my normal life. I'm kind of an introvert, kind of a more private person. But when I'm In the ring, it's like, oh, I have all the— this whole crowd, mostly of men, and like they're watching a female athlete compete in this very kind of masculine, violent sport. And there's something about that that I think makes me feel kind of like, I don't know, it makes you feel like you're doing something. It makes you feel like you're risking something in an exciting, fun way. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely. It makes you feel like a badass. I mean, honestly, you're like, hey, look, I can do something that others can't. In fact, my guess is you're doing something that 99.9% of those men can't do. They're not in the arena. They're watching.

Olivia Curry: They didn't choose to do it.

Sara Emmerson: They didn't choose to do it. Exactly. They didn't choose to do it. And so for you to do that is, um, it's heroic, right?

Olivia Curry: You just said it feels a little like that, right? Yeah. And I always have to remember, like, At the same time, it is still just a sport. It is still— it doesn't make me a better person than anyone. It doesn't. But it's just a different kind of decision where, yeah, I decided that I wanted to try to attempt this very risky thing. And some people never do because it is scary. And I think it's given me a lot of richness in my life that I wouldn't have had otherwise.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. When you said that, I was thinking, um, the quote or the thought that came to mind isn't that one risk is better than the other. It's a different kind of brave.

Olivia Curry: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Right.

Olivia Curry: Yeah. Cuz it's also risky. And trust me, I know many very brave, you know, men who box who are not very emotionally vulnerable, and that is the risk that they should take, right? To be a more developed person. Exactly. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Exactly. They, they aren't willing to take that risk. And there's other people that are risking, in, maybe there's somebody out there that's building an app or they're, they're risking in the emotional, they're risking in repairing a relationship. There's tons of different risks, um, that you can take, risking intellectually and going to school and learning. But this risk does have a physical bravery side to it. Yeah. Um, I wanna ask you about that. Okay. Stepping into the rink, you just talked about the 20,000 people and, um, we'll talk a little bit more about the time that I got to see you in Rosemont, which was really exciting.

Olivia Curry: Oh yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Um, yeah, I got to come and see you, um, which was is still a huge highlight for me and my husband and son. So, but, um, you step in that arena in front of 20,000 people. Talk to us about what it's like. One, I want to back up, um, and I want you to tell me about training. You talked about being in camp. Tell me what that looks like bringing you up to the moment when you step in that ring in front of 20,000 people.

Olivia Curry: Yeah, so training, um, I'm always training. I'm always in the boxing gym. But then when we get a fight on the books and it's scheduled, usually like between 5 and 10 weeks before the fight, that's like camp. A good camp at this point in my life is like 8 weeks probably.

Sara Emmerson: Okay.

Olivia Curry: And that's when things just get really, really hard.

Sara Emmerson: Okay. Tell me about like, what does a day look like in camp for those 8 weeks?

Olivia Curry: So usually when I'm in camp, I'm training usually twice a day. Um, sometimes 3 times, although that's a little crazy. But, you know, so some days it's boxing, so you're hitting the mitts, right? My coach is always there with me. He's like very diligent about always being there, telling me what to do, holding the mitts for me, bag work. I'm usually sparring 3 times a week. And when we talk about sparring in boxing, it's quite— it's hard sparring. It's like, you know, you'll— you can get concussions from that. You get, you know, I've gotten broken noses, black eyes, all sorts of stuff from that. So it's very—

Sara Emmerson: And you're sparring— are you sparring Only women or men and women in this?

Olivia Curry: I am, I would say mostly men. Um, cuz I'm relatively large, so you gotta kind of work with people the correct size.

Sara Emmerson: Okay. Let's just talk about relatively, because you, I would never, like in the description, I would never say Olivia is large. So I'm sure—

Olivia Curry: I'm 5'10. I'm, I'm tall and I'm, you know, I, I carry a decent amount of weight. So for, you know, I, I have to spar with the guys. Yeah. Um, to get the strength level correct. Uh, some women as well. Um, But yeah, usually sparring 3 times a week. We're doing 10 rounds in a row each time. Then I have runs. Sometimes I'm pacing these really crazy, for me, fast runs with these high school cross-country kids.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: I'm sure everyone on the road is like, what is this middle-aged lady doing with these children?

Sara Emmerson: Like, you have no idea. I'm gonna be boxing soon.

Olivia Curry: Right, right. But yeah, and then strength training as well, some weightlifting type stuff.

Sara Emmerson: A little bit of— What do you eat when you're in camp?

Olivia Curry: Oh, that's the hardest part for sure. Harder than all the hard work in the gym. 'Cause you always have to cut weight. So basically I'm just not eating enough food at all. It's like I'm counting calories. I'm eating very boring, you know, chicken, rice, vegetables, fish, eggs. But you making the weight is the hardest part always. So it's like you're doing all this, But on a very low amount of fuel. So you're sometimes cutting 20 pounds over those, you know, 8 weeks.

Sara Emmerson: Wow.

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And sometimes you have to put it on too, correct?

Olivia Curry: Sort of. I did that recently where I went up. I was supposed to fight in a weight class above my normal one, but it turned out that that weight class was a little bit more like just my normal walking around weight. So because I'm at the taller, larger end of the spectrum, You know, there's not really, I, I'm always cutting weight.

Sara Emmerson: Okay. All right. So we're gonna get to that 20,000 people fight in a moment. But tell me about, like, if you think through your career so far, what has been the biggest, most successful risk you've taken over the last few years?

Olivia Curry: So I think it might've been that one, the one that I, that was, the 20,000 people, because that fight— up until that point in my professional career, I had some, you know, challenging fights. I was kind of learning on the job, but it was mostly local or like small shows, um, against people that we thought like, okay, it might be tough, but like it'll be very evenly matched, right? Like you should be able to beat this person if you do everything correctly. And I had lost one fight, but for the most part that was true. I was building my career against people my own sort of level. Then we got this offer, um, for this opponent on a Jake Paul card that he had signed. And she was this big bad. She was one weight class above me. So pretty like bigger than me, you know, stronger than me. And she was at the time, I think like 12-0 with 11 knockouts. And you don't really see that many knockouts in female boxing.

Sara Emmerson: Have you ever been knocked out?

Olivia Curry: Not in a fight. I've never been even put down in a fight. In a fight.

Sara Emmerson: Of course you haven't.

Olivia Curry: Of course you haven't. Against some of these men. Uh, yeah. Once in a while.

Sara Emmerson: I'm so proud of you. So 11 knockouts she had. Now tell me about that. Like at what point, this is the part that I think of, like, first of all, when some, when you say we, we got the call or the offer, right? In my head, that's like the, in this like old school boxing gym. you've got an old guy that's— that, um, is sitting there waiting on a stool, and somebody shows up with like a handwritten letter. They knock on the door and they're like, we want to fight. I'm guessing it doesn't come in like that.

Olivia Curry: I mean, that's not that far off, but a lot of it happens on like Instagram or text these days, you know.

Sara Emmerson: But like, do they just be like, I want to— on Instagram, I want to fight you? Or is this like manager to manager?

Olivia Curry: It's managers. Yeah. So usually the promoters and managers are talking to each other, and it's usually secret before anything kind of gets public. Um, but we considered it and that it was like, this was gonna be a very, very— like, no one would fight this girl. And this is the only reason they came to us. It's like they were just trying to get anyone to fight her because they couldn't find— They're like, Olivia will do it. Well, and they were right. We talked about it and we didn't know if it was a smart choice, but we watched some tape, did all that, and we thought They're going to pay us. We got the number up too. A lot of, you know, in professional boxing, it's also all about the business, right? Because you're not only paying yourself, but out of your purse, you pay your whole team, your coaches, your sparring partners, your cut man, your— the guy who wraps your hands. Like, so it has to be worth it, you know? And you're paying taxes. So we got the number to a decent amount and then we kind of—

Sara Emmerson: And you're like, if I'm going to do this, if I'm going to get knocked down in front of 20,000 people, it's got to be a pretty good amount.

Olivia Curry: Literally. And then, and that That was the cost, right? Is we were like, you might get absolutely starched. You might just like get knocked out. And that's like physical, like real consequences and also embarrassing. Like no one wants that, right? And it was a good risk because I lost that fight, but I did not get knocked out. And in fact, like the Las Vegas odds, like people could gamble on it. A lot of people made a lot of money on me. Because I think the odds had me getting knocked out in less than 4 rounds. And if you bet that I would go the distance and go to a decision, you made like a ton of money.

Sara Emmerson: Oh, I would've bet on that.

Olivia Curry: I know I would.

Sara Emmerson: I'm like, Olivia's not giving up. No way.

Olivia Curry: She has too much grit. Well, and that's what— that was the moment. Like, I didn't know. None of us really knew, although my coach claims that he always knew that. But yeah, we went the distance. We even won a few rounds. And after—

Sara Emmerson: So you're walking up. Real quick, you're walking up before you get to the Going the Distance. Sorry to stop you, but you're walking up and they're playing all the music. What's your, what's your, do you have a signature walk-in song?

Olivia Curry: No, I change it up every time, but I, that walkout was the most fun walkout I've, I've never experienced something like that. I mean, you can imagine how many people are there. It was so, it was—

Sara Emmerson: What was the song? What did you choose?

Olivia Curry: Yeah. I chose a song that was called Still Don't Know My Name because no one knew who I was.

Sara Emmerson: Exactly.

Olivia Curry: I love that. Yeah, it was— it felt amazing. And walking out, I felt I had already made the decision. I was super nervous up until, like, right before. And then—

Sara Emmerson: and you're always nervous. Right before you walk out or right before you go into the ring? Or, like, tell me, when does the nerves start and what is going on? What's the self-talk in your head? Because that's so important.

Olivia Curry: Yeah. And I think I've gotten better at that over the years. That is important. I— so you naturally get nervous before a fight, right? You're always going to. It would be crazy not to. I think something would be wrong with you if you didn't. And I always get nervous, even like in the weeks leading up to it. I'll be like punching people in my sleep, like not sleeping well, dreaming about the fight. Like it's always in my head, right? Yeah. And then of course, like what's going on behind the scenes, everyone's out there in the audience, like it's a big party, whatever. But behind the scenes, you're in a tiny little room getting your hands wrapped with all these people quietly like staring at you, cameras in there watching you, like very serious atmosphere. And so that makes you nervous.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: But for some reason with this fight, I think I had accepted by the time my hands were wrapped and everything was done and I was ready to walk out, I had kind of accepted like, If I die, I die. Like, that was my attitude. And I, and I just, I was like, I'm gonna have fun. I'm gonna like enjoy this moment and then fight my ass off. And yeah, see, um, and that's what I did. And I did not win, but I— it helped propel my career afterwards.

Sara Emmerson: Okay, you didn't win that fight, but you won. I mean, we just think back to that quote, right? For those that are, uh, that maybe failed while daring greatly, right? Failure only means, I always like to say this, fa— failure is only if you're, if it's final, right?

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: That wasn't your last fight. You are continuing to grow and to learn and to continue to, um, excel in your profession. And that's amazing, right? One fight doesn't define everything.

Olivia Curry: Um, yeah. That's, and I've lost fights since then too. And the reason it's hard, and no one, no competitor likes to lose. Like, we do this because we're competitive. So it hurts. Every time I lose a fight, I cry. But, you know, it's also— I know that the fights that I've lost in the last few years, I've lost because I'm competing against literally the best in the world. You know, I fought for 2 world titles last year, and the first one ended in a draw. The second one, she won by majority decision. And, you know, this is someone who was on her national team in Australia for years who had 130 amateur fights. You know, I only had like maybe 30 or less. And so, yeah, it's hard to— I want to win a fight for sure. Like, I hope that the next fight I have is a victory, but I'd rather be losing against the best in the world than winning against someone locally in Chicago that I know I could beat.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely. Absolutely. And there's something interesting about that too. I just, I think as humans that the comparison struggle is always so real, right?

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: We have that imposter syndrome. We're always comparing. Mm-hmm. But it sounds like you've really learned that you're, you're not comparing equal things, right? Comparing your 30 to 130 or 160 isn't fair. So when you look at that and you look at it and you go, wait, I had 30 and I essentially tied except for somebody else's opinion, right, to 130 or 160. That's pretty amazing. And so can you tell me about that? Like, have you learned that you need to only— it's you against you rather than always you against somebody else?

Olivia Curry: It's funny because I know that like intellectually, right? And that's why I'm saying it, like, especially on your podcast. Like, I'm like, I know that that's That's true. But also, of course, the emotional part of it is like, no, I want to win. I want to be the best. Right. And I think I might end my career having had a career where, I mean, even now, like at middleweight, I think I'm ranked 5th in the world on most sanctioning bodies, which sounds really good.

Sara Emmerson: That's amazing.

Olivia Curry: But of course I'm like, I used to be 3, now I'm 5. Right. I'm not ever going to be 1 because the top 2 people are better than me and I just know know that. And so that's the negative self-talk that like, it's weird 'cause I think you actually sort of need both. Like the way that I balance it in my mind, 'cause I don't wanna be delusional either about my abilities. I wanna be able to accept reality.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: And say like, I might end my career having been pretty darn good, but not the absolute best in the world. And then what do I do? I have to like make peace with that. So that's where I'm at now. I'm trying, as I wrap up my career, trying to not end it on a bitter note, or I don't wanna have any regrets. So I have, I think I have to work mentally, work my way through.

Sara Emmerson: With the growth. Yeah.

Olivia Curry: Mm-hmm.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Is it, is there a, a space or a spot where you can look at, at it from a perspective of, I'm at my very best, right? Like, I've gotten to my very best.

Olivia Curry: And that's always a question, right? Is like, my question is always, is this my very best? Could I, could I work harder? Could I do X, Y, or Z? But the other part of this for me is also, I'm also just a human being living a life. And so how much am I willing to sacrifice? I've sacrificed a lot for the sport because I love it so much. But there's some things that I won't sacrifice. Some of that is treating, having relationships in my life and treating other people well, right? Like, I'm not gonna only, only focus on this sport to the point that I'm like Michael Jordan, you know, where it's like, this is, I'm gonna be a jerk to everyone or something because I have to focus. Like, I, I think there's a balance that always needs to be present.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: And in that sense, I do think that I'm at my best, doing my best, or this is as much as I can put towards this goal. I'm working extremely hard at it while still paying my bills, building relationships, trying to be an engaged citizen in the world, like all these other things too.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. And for you, we talked about some of that before where you felt like I, I had, I knew going in and making it, going pro, I was gonna have to say no to some of these things or, or limit them at least when I was in camp or things like that. What are some of the things that you feel like you've had to give up or pause for this race?

Olivia Curry: Yeah, I mean, I think for sure in my career in, you know, film production, I've been really lucky that Picture North, where I work with, they're very supportive of this. And I think there's In some way, it's like they can also see that this kind of athletic career maybe also will help me learn other sorts of skills or like put things together, tell sports stories in a more interesting way. So they've been supportive, but I know that if I was devoting all of my time to work, for example, I'd probably be a little further along. in my career. Maybe I'd be making a little more money. Maybe I'd be making more pizzas every year. Also relationships with people. You know, I'm, I feel very lucky. I, I love my family. I have great friends, but like there's not as much time to build those relationships when you're training all the time, right? On the other hand, I've also made incredible relationships with the guys in my gym, right? The people at my gym.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: And a lot of those people are not folks that I'd probably be hanging out with so much if it weren't for boxing. I have like an incredibly like diverse, interesting group of friends who understand that aspect of my life as well that I wouldn't have met otherwise. So I think it's always like a give and take. We were talking before too, I want to have a family. I'm in my late 30s. That timeline does not wait for anything. And it's waited a little bit because of boxing for me.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. So for you, the things that you've put on pause, it sounds like just like you were talking about a little bit ago where you have to think about both. You have to think about the— I always like to talk about the happy and the hard, right? And so for you, you're thinking about that with This too. You've put things on pause, but you have gained some things too. And it sounds like you really have gotten to the point where you're like, I, I'm glad I took the risk. Is that true?

Olivia Curry: That's very true. I, I think, I think about this so often because I do have days where I'm like, man, should I just have never? What am I doing? Like, this is crazy. Like, this is a crazy thing I'm doing. But it sort of goes back to that very first like pro and con list thing that we were talking about earlier, which anytime I ever think, well, what would my life be without this? Like, what if I had never done it? If I quit after one month of Muay Thai classes, my life would be totally different. And I just like can't bring myself to regret that choice because I love this sport so much and I love what it's brought to me. Both in terms of how I think, how I see the world, the people I've met. Um, and it's just like sometimes you gotta do things for the plot. We only get one life. Sometimes you gotta do it for the story.

Sara Emmerson: I love it. You gotta do it for the plot. Exactly. Exactly. Talk to me about how, um, do you move forward when you believe your performance and the official outcome don't tell the same story?

Olivia Curry: Mm. Yeah, that one is tough. I mean, I— so a good example of this was my fight about a year ago. It was last September, um, and that was the first world title fight I had last year that ended in a draw, which is a tie.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: Um, and they always say, like, leave it all in the ring. That's, like, a very common expression in boxing. It's like you're supposed to leave it all in the ring. And I felt like maybe for the first time ever, maybe first and last, I don't know. I've fought very hard many times before, but afterwards when I think, how could I have pushed harder to get that win instead of that draw? I was sort of like, I don't know what else I could have done. I really felt like I left it all out there.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: And sometimes, you know, the other person is just as good and you have to come— to terms with that. But you can look at that on a piece of paper if you're just someone looking at my record saying, oh, well, she got a draw against this person. She didn't win. Okay. She's, you know, whatever that means to them about how good of a boxer I am. But for me internally, I know, like, I put all the work that I could into that camp. You did your part. I put every ounce of heart into the later rounds to come back from being down in the first few rounds and, like, make it an even fight. I poured my heart and soul into it. I don't think I could have fought harder, to be honest.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Talk to me about when you're in some of those final rounds and your body is, like— the best word I can think of is beaten, because it is.

Olivia Curry: Yes.

Sara Emmerson: How do you keep going?

Olivia Curry: Yeah, great question. I think, So there's a part of that that's getting used to it, right? The longer I've done the sport and the more experiences I've had, I've learned some of that is things like muscle memory. It's things like knowing that when you're hurt, like I've gotten cut also in my last 3 fights and one of them pretty bad where blood was like rushing into my eye. And that's the kind of thing that you don't know until it happens exactly what that feels like. But once you've been cut once, then the next time it happens, you're like, okay, I'm not dying.

Sara Emmerson: I've been there, done that. Yeah, I'm gonna be okay. Yeah.

Olivia Curry: Exactly. And so there's a little bit of that, but from like a mental strength perspective, I think, um, I think that is something that's trainable actually. I think it's something I've learned over the years of fighting, even going back to my amateur days of, um, having fights where maybe I did lose. Uh, and I thought afterwards, like, man, I feel like I could have tried a little harder. Like, you want to end a fight feeling absolutely gassed out, like you have nothing left in the tank to give, like you're gonna, like, fall down afterwards, because then you know, I did everything I could. And—

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: It's emotional tricks too. Your corner makes that, that whole movie thing that you see in boxing movies of your corner yelling at you and like, think of like, you know, this great traumatic thing in your life. Some of that is real. I mean, in that fight, my coach was— at the time, my dad was really sick. He had ALS. That's how he passed. And he was really struggling, and the camp had been emotionally difficult because of that. And I think there was a round where he's like, your dad's watching, like, go out there, you know, some real like sports movie stuff.

Sara Emmerson: Some real stuff, yeah.

Olivia Curry: But it kind of worked, you know? And you gotta pull from your heart Sometimes to, to get through it.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, definitely. In filmmaking, you were just talking about this, like feeling like a film, but in filmmaking you can edit the story. You know that, right? You get to edit those things in and out. But in boxing, you're living that in real time. How do those 2 experiences, how do those experiences shape one another?

Olivia Curry: Well, I definitely think that boxing has helped me become a better filmmaker in, in many ways. I also think like a big part of it is just having experiences out in the world gives you a story to tell. It makes you think differently about how to tell a story.

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Olivia Curry: But in terms of what you're talking about, I guess like, I feel like the craft of both of those jobs that I have, it's quite different, but because of that, they balance each other out. Like, it is actually, even on a daily routine basis, it's nice to go from doing something on my computer where I'm really thinking with my brain and kind of moving puzzle pieces around to tell a story in a certain way and thinking about things intellectually, and then going to the gym where I'm doing everything with my body and I'm having to be intelligent, but in more of like a physical intelligence, feeling, somatic kind of way.

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Olivia Curry: So that sense, I think it's nice to, to have that balance in my life.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: If that makes sense.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. So that it gives you both, you're able to use both. It sounds like it helps you stay well-rounded. I, I don't know a better—

Olivia Curry: Yeah, I think so.

Sara Emmerson: Word. Yeah.

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Okay.

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: How, another question I have for you here. How has your definition of winning changed throughout your career?

Olivia Curry: Well, I think the competitor in me, when you talk about sports and boxing, the competitor in me will always say winning is winning. Because you have to think that way if you're going to win, right? The result is the result, however you get to it. But in a more philosophical way, I do think that at the end of my career, my boxing career, I will have, I hope that I will feel like it's been a victorious career because of the progress I've made. Everyone, it's very cliché, but like the, it's a journey. It's about the journey, not the result. That, yes, that's so true though. Just in everything in life, you know, the, the metrics by which we all measure ourselves, I think can be important in order to like reach those goals. And you have to, you have to have something that you're trying to, accomplish to make that sort of progress. But at the end of the day, reaching the goal exactly how you thought maybe isn't as important as all the work that went into it. I, I think I believe that. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Well, and the journey, I mean, the fight lasts, how, how long is the longest fight you've—

Olivia Curry: So now I've been doing, um, 10-round fights. So for women, that's 2-minute rounds. So basically, Plus the round. So basically 30 minutes is the fight. 20 minutes plus the round. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: So 30 minutes and training is, I mean, training's always, but like camp is 8 weeks.

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. So you're like, I, if I don't value all of the blood, sweat, and tears that went into the training, does it really even make the 2 minutes—

Olivia Curry: Right.

Sara Emmerson: Valuable, right? Like the 2 minutes is only valuable because of all of that.

Olivia Curry: That, yeah, that's so true. And that's That's what you hope to show on fight night. But also, sometimes things happen. Like, sometimes you're injured, sometimes you're on your period, sometimes, like, you don't get great sleep. So it won't always— you know, you have to find a way to still win, hopefully, the fight, even if you don't feel your best. But those 30 minutes are not indicative of, like, necessarily how good you are as a boxer holistically. You know, there have been times—

Sara Emmerson: Oh, that doesn't define your career. One fight cannot define your career. Define the whole career. Absolutely.

Olivia Curry: Yeah, for sure.

Sara Emmerson: What do people misunderstand about the emotional and mental demands placed on professional fighters?

Olivia Curry: Ooh, I think maybe a lot.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: Some things that come to mind, I think people, you know, don't necessarily realize how all-encompassing it is and how hard the work actually is. I think like any sport, it looks easier than it is. Um, there's a lot of times when people say, you know, I'll say, well, I, you know, I have sparring tomorrow. I have to be home early. Like, I have to get good sleep. And, you know, it's that, well, like, you could, but you could stay up a little. Oh, but what about one drink? Or, you know, and that's the kind of thing where the stakes of it, I think people don't understand where I'm like, I'm going to wake up tomorrow and go into a ring with—

Sara Emmerson: That's it.

Olivia Curry: This last camp that we were training for, I was moving up 2 weight classes. So the last sparring I had, it was 10 straight rounds. It was a different man every round.

Sara Emmerson: Every round.

Olivia Curry: Different body types.

Sara Emmerson: Fresh energy. Yeah, fresh energy.

Olivia Curry: And I was not. Mostly bigger. One really fast, smaller guy. But then I was sparring guys who were 220 pounds. And it wasn't like light, easy tap, tap, tap. It's like they're trying to take my head off. And so if I'm tired a little bit or if I'm like not in the right mental state, like that's, yeah, you can get super, super hurt.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: So I think that's one thing. It's just like the stakes, even though I always go back and forth, it's a contradiction, right? It's like, this isn't life. It's not the most important thing in life. It's a sport, right? It's not like you're in a life or death situation really. There's rules. But also like you're kind of in a life and death situation. Yeah, sort of. You are.

Sara Emmerson: I mean, definitely you are.

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Tell us about this last one. You mentioned it a couple times and I know I was able to watch this stuff on social media with you too, but that was a disappointment for you, not just from a fighting standpoint, but, um, explain to everybody listening if they haven't heard about that.

Olivia Curry: Yeah, so I was, um, offered a fight against a world champion, um, but she was 2 weight classes bigger than my normal middleweight. So it'd be moving up to light heavyweight. And so she's naturally quite a bit bigger than me. And she's also a southpaw, which means she stands like in the opposite direction that I'm used to.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: So it was gonna be a big challenge, but we thought we could beat her. We thought with enough work we could do it. And my coach and I have made kind of a deal a long time ago that you don't say no to world title fights. Like, if I wanna become a world champion, we gotta take those hard fights.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: So that's what we planned on doing. And we worked for like 6 weeks straight on big, tall southpaws. And that's like all the sparring we did. So I was feeling really confident coming into it. I had had an injury last year that since has healed. I was like, okay, we're good. We're in the best shape possible. And then unfortunately on weigh-in day, the day before the fight, she weighed in almost 5 pounds overweight. which for boxing is like missing weight by a lot. Um, and we decided that would be—

Sara Emmerson: And you had flown. This was in Atlanta, right?

Olivia Curry: It was in Atlanta. Yeah. It was on the—

Sara Emmerson: So you had a film, like, just so people understand the stakes, you had flown there, your whole team had flown there probably multiple days in advance.

Olivia Curry: My mom and sister were there to watch, and this was gonna be another big arena, like 15,000 people, big deal fight.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. And you even had a film crew that's been working with you and things like that, right?

Olivia Curry: Yes.

Sara Emmerson: So all of this is happening. And then you get there, you weigh in, and you're like, I did my part. I'm good. Right? And then you get the call that this happens. Talk to me about getting that call and your thoughts and feelings from that.

Olivia Curry: Yeah. So I had already weighed in. And then after you weigh in, it's like you want to eat and drink because I wasn't cutting too much weight for this. Normally there's a huge water cut that fighters do, but because I was moving up, It wasn't too bad, but I was still like, yeah, I'm gonna— Watch it.

Sara Emmerson: You wanna make weight? Yeah.

Olivia Curry: Eat and drink. So I was at breakfast with my assistant coach and my main coach had stayed 'cause we noticed my opponent has not shown up yet. This is suspicious. And so he calls me while I'm like eating breakfast and basically said, hey, she's way over. Let's go come back. Like, let's figure out what to do. And we basically had like a team meeting to decide, do we still take the fight? Do we, you know, try to charge them more money and take the fight? Do we just cancel? And ultimately it was sort of his call. And I do really appreciate this 'cause part of his job is like keeping me safe, you know?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: And because we had already been moving up weight classes, she was already gonna be that much bigger than me. We decided 5 pounds, like essentially we would've walked into the ring, I would've been probably, On fight night, 178 pounds, and she would have maybe been 195 or 200. And we thought, that's just going to be too much. So we called it. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And talk to me about that disappointment.

Olivia Curry: Oh, I cried. I've said this multiple times on this podcast, and I need you to know, I, like, am not a crier. I never cry. In fact, I called my friend afterwards. And they were like, I'm so jealous because I've known you for 18 years and I've only seen you cry like once. And like, this film crew is here capturing me all emotional. But it's disappointing because you put in so much work. It's a little embarrassing because you put it out publicly, right? So it's like there's all this attention focused on you, sponsorships that have given me money that now it's like, oh dude, what do we do?

Sara Emmerson: What do we do? Yeah.

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Like I still said your name, so.

Olivia Curry: Right, exactly. Yeah, I know everyone's been really cool about it, but Yeah, it's just a, it's like anticlimactic after all that work. And you're mentally also preparing, like, I'm about to get in there with a scary person in front of thousands of people and have this moment. And then it just kind of like goes away and you're just in the audience then. Like, that sucks. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, that does. That does. Well, I saw the post that you made right afterwards and I thought it was so gracious and professional and I would expect nothing less from you, but my heart actually just really went out to you going, Yeah, that's like the risk of putting yourself out there, the risk of, um, allowing there to be a public failure.

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Emotionally or physically, right?

Olivia Curry: And for her, I'm sure that it sucks even worse, the, the my opponent who didn't make weight, because she didn't do that on purpose. Like, am I still mad about it? A little bit, you know, but I don't hate her for it because I'm sure that something went wrong with her weight cut, and that's even worse for her to have to go back With no money, by the way. You don't get paid unless you fight, right? So she—

Sara Emmerson: So what does that do if, if you make weight? Do you still— do they pay you?

Olivia Curry: I got paid essentially like a percentage, like a— yeah, like a cancellation fee kind of, which still sucks because that's also part of it. I'm like, oh great, now I also have to take a pay cut. Yeah, but she doesn't get anything. And yeah, that's part of the sport. It's like things, things happen and And boxing's not a super well-run, you know, we don't have a, like an NBA or an NFL. There's no one singular organization overseeing things. So it's all that stuff is kind of difficult to navigate. Um, yeah, and you're right, like now you have to go on Instagram and tell everyone, hey, this isn't actually happening, just kidding. And yeah, it feels weird, but. I don't know. I've learned to, I think, make my peace with that. Cuz what are you gonna do? You know?

Sara Emmerson: Well, and you look at it on this side of it and you're like, you know what? Nobody else got to say they were ever even going to do that. Right?

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Like the fact is you're like, I, I did everything I could. And I think that's the part of risking that we forget. There's stuff that's out of our control.

Olivia Curry: Yeah. Right.

Sara Emmerson: You can take the risk and you can do everything right within your control and it still go wrong. Because that's, I mean, uh, a lot of the times when I'm working with clients, we talk about 3 levels of control, full control, no control, partial control, right? You're taking, when you walk in that ring, you're taking control of everything you have full control over.

Olivia Curry: Mm-hmm.

Sara Emmerson: But you're still in partial control. There's still not a lot you can do about that, right?

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Because you, you, you can't control how they're gonna react or how they're gonna fight. Right. And so in this scenario, you couldn't control her weight.

Olivia Curry: Yeah. And there's been— there's always something in boxing. Like, usually it's— I mean, my last fight, which was another world title fight at middleweight, it was the rematch for that fight last year, and I lost it just barely. It was a close fight, but I lost that fight legitimately. And, you know, part of it was my performance, but part of my performance was also I had a torn muscle in my foot that I didn't really treat or know about until afterwards. Part of my performance was— I was going through a lot of family stuff and my mental health wasn't super good. So, you know, there, there are always things that, that come up that you can't control.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, for yourself and, and you thinking through that, um, I, we've heard about some of the risks you've taken that didn't go well. What was your sweetest win?

Olivia Curry: Ooh. Um, I had one fight that was local. It was kind of, uh, similar to One that I don't think it was the one you came to, but it was like—

Sara Emmerson: The Rosemont one you won and it was great.

Olivia Curry: There were, there's been a bunch at Rosemont and one that I, that I felt really good about was, um, an outdoor one. I'm not sure that was the one you came to, but it was—

Sara Emmerson: Oh no, we were outdoors and there was like black tables.

Olivia Curry: Okay. Maybe it was this one then because I talked to—

Sara Emmerson: It was so great. I've got some pictures. Um, I'll see if I can link 'em in into this.

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Um, but, uh, one really, uh, funny thing about that is we had like bleacher seats.

Olivia Curry: Okay.

Sara Emmerson: When we first got there and I saw all these black fancy tables like around the, uh, the rink.

Olivia Curry: You just geeked up.

Sara Emmerson: Well, and there was a red rope around it. And my husband knows in these scenarios, he's like, you don't wanna be around her when she does this, but she's pretty good at it. So I just walk up and I see this like older gentleman that looks like an old crusty boxer that everybody was talking to. And I'm like, hands down, he's in charge. So I just walk up to him and I'm like, Hey sir, um, I'm here with my son for his birthday and his friend and my husband. How do we get in to sit here? And he's like, well, all those tickets are gone. And I was like, oh shoot. Okay. So I just started talking to him and I'm like, you look important. Who are you? Start talking to him about stuff. And then I was like, well, here's the deal. I know you said all those tickets are gone, but you have a lot of empty tables. And when they start filming, you're gonna want people there cheering. I know.

Olivia Curry: Oh, that's smart. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And I said, and I'm really good at cheering, and I promised to smile every single time they put the camera on us. So if you find yourself needing some people to sit there, I just want you to know we're going to be right over there. And he start— and he starts laughing a little bit, and then he, he's like, all right. And then I start turning around and I'm walking away, and he goes, hey. And I turn back around and he has 4 tickets in his hand, and he hands them to me, and he's like, happy birthday to your son. And I was like, oh my.

Olivia Curry: I love that.

Sara Emmerson: So we got to, we got to go and sit right up Front and next to you. So it was—

Olivia Curry: that is so cool. I don't think I realized that. Maybe you told me at the, at the time. Well, you were busy.

Sara Emmerson: It's not like I'm gonna say, it's not like I'm gonna be like, hey Olivia, guess what? Um, but no, we got pictures with you and you and, um, it was really special. So tell me about that. You go in, it was an incredible fight. You did an incred— a great job and you won.

Olivia Curry: Thank you. Yeah, that felt good because I, that was a turning point in my skillset where I won, but I won in a way that I had never won before, where we had worked on so many things in that camp in particular because I had lost a fight the year prior. And my coach was like, we're— that's not gonna happen again. Like, we're, we're locking in. And we kind of like did it differently. The camp was way harder. We left no stone unturned. And it was really all about volume and throwing, just like being in as good of shape. That was my first 8-round fight, I believe. And I was just in as good a shape as I could be.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, you went a lot of rounds. I remember.

Olivia Curry: It was a lot of rounds. Yeah. And at the time, of course, you haven't done it before. So it's like, will I have the gas tank to even do this? And I did. And it was against someone that I had known kind of from the amateurs who had some experience, who was same size. Right. It was a very equal on paper sort of match. And so I just felt proud of that win. Like it was really definitive. It was not a close fight. I was winning almost every round.

Sara Emmerson: You were.

Olivia Curry: But it was a hard fight where I had to like show actually what I had been Working on. So again, process, you know, is, makes the outcome sweeter, I think.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely. So tell us a little bit about what's next for you, and then we're gonna get into a little rapid fire questions for you here as we, we come to an end.

Olivia Curry: Yeah. Well, I don't totally know what's next because, um, talk about things you can't control. So much of my boxing career now is based on what other people are doing. I'm signed with a promoter, so what fights they have coming up. But we, you know, we are talking with them about possibilities. So I'm hoping I might stay still at this higher weight class if there's an opportunity there. And I think no matter what happens, if the fight happens in the fall or in the winter, it's going to be a hard fight against hopefully another world champion or someone who's very high level. And that's the only kind of fight I want now, honestly. So I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I'm just gonna stay in camp and keep working on my, my skills.

Sara Emmerson: Well, we're gonna be cheering you on all the way and are so proud of the work that you've done and your willingness to say yes to something not just physically scary, but something that you, you were able to show so many other, like, I love how you said, even going back to that Theodore Roosevelt Quote that, that was written for the men in the ring, but there's so many women that are doing this now too. Yeah. And you're giving hope to men and women to step out and step in and give your all no matter what. And that's an inspiration. And at the end of the day, no matter how many titles you have or how many wins you have, which I do know is important, we're definitely at a very high-level sports family and winning is important. Definitely. But, um, at the end of the day too, you're gonna have a legacy of, wow, I did that. Mm-hmm. And I grew and I learned and I did something hard that nobody thought I could. And, um, that is way more important than the wins or losses.

Olivia Curry: Oh, thank you for saying that. I think that's a really beautiful way to put it. And I, I think especially after I'm fully done with boxing, I'll be able to appreciate that angle even more, you know? Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: But until then, get in there and knock 'em out.

Olivia Curry: Come on. Exactly.

Sara Emmerson: Right? Don't get knocked out. Just get in there and knock them out. Nope.

Olivia Curry: Never.

Sara Emmerson: Right, exactly. No knockouts. Right. Okay. We're gonna give some rapid fire questions. Ready?

Olivia Curry: Okay. I'm ready.

Sara Emmerson: Okay. Harder, preparing for a fight or recovering?

Olivia Curry: Ooh. Preparing.

Sara Emmerson: Best advice a coach has ever given you?

Olivia Curry: Hmm. Well, in terms of pure boxing advice, it's gonna be, uh, keep your chin down, which I had a problem with for a while. In terms of life, you know, I think it's, um, I think it's keep showing up. Keep, uh, being the one who, who comes to practice when other people find excuses.

Sara Emmerson: I love it. A fighter you would love to share the ring with?

Olivia Curry: Ooh. Um, Franchon Cruz. We've been kind of having a little back and forth every once in a while over the years. She's— she once was a unified, um, uh, super middleweight contender. I would love to fight her. And then of course, the GOAT, Claressa Shields, who, um, I saw fight at this Atlanta card and is just a beast, just a monster in the ring. But—

Sara Emmerson: Let's go. Game on. You heard that, managers. Do your talking, um, or send that crazy letter to, to the person sitting on the little stool that I talked about.

Olivia Curry: You're right. There is always an old guy on a stool in a boxing gym. You're so right about that.

Sara Emmerson: He's always in the corner and he always—

Olivia Curry: Usually with a mug of coffee and like a hat.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: And a hat.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. A hat, the mug of coffee, and just sitting there like, I used to fight, but I'm waiting on, I'm waiting on the letters now.

Olivia Curry: That's a real guy.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, exactly. The song that immediately puts you in fight mode. Ooh.

Olivia Curry: Oh my gosh, that's a hard one. I have a lot, but, um, ooh, I'm not even gonna be able to think of a good one right now.

Sara Emmerson: That's okay.

Olivia Curry: That's okay. My mind is blank.

Sara Emmerson: No problem. One word that describes you inside the ring.

Olivia Curry: Tenacious.

Sara Emmerson: One word that describes you outside.

Olivia Curry: Uh, uh, curious.

Sara Emmerson: I would agree on both of those. What is scarier, throwing the first punch or taking the first punch?

Olivia Curry: Oh, taking the first punch. You always gotta take one to— and then, but then you might be relieved cuz after you take it, you know, is this gonna be a really long night or, oh, it's fine, I can take it, you know?

Sara Emmerson: Okay. So is that the strategy? Like when you go in right at the front is just to take one as soon as possible?

Olivia Curry: I mean, you don't wanna take one ever flush, but you know you're going to. So after that first round, I always come back to the corner and it's either a feeling of relief, like, okay, I will see how the fight goes, but I know I'm not getting knocked out. Or a couple of times it's been like, ooh, I better be careful.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Um, you know how like at the end when like the, it's over and then they, everyone comes back and they're like high-fiving each other and like congratulating. And I'm like, you just beat the living daylights out of each other. Is that like genuine? Like, hey, good game.

Olivia Curry: Yes, I— it is. It actually even more than that, because I think sharing the ring with someone is one of the most like intimate things you can do. It's very raw. It's like, this is their real self right now. Like, yeah, you look into their eyes and you see if they're scared, if they're tired, if they're hurt, like all of that. Um, yeah. And there's always respect unless there's some crazy personal reason for it not to be. There's always a lot of respect with your opponent.

Sara Emmerson: Okay. And then, um, this isn't in my rapid-fire questions, but it just came to my mind again. When you guys are down on the ground and you're like still pummeling each other and you can tell people are saying things, are you guys smack talking? Like, what's, what's happening then?

Olivia Curry: Like when we're actually fighting and there's a little talking?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Like you can see people talking. Are you like, I'm gonna get you and your mom? Like what?

Olivia Curry: Sometimes.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: And some of us, smack talk is kind of part of the fun of it. There are times when it can be disrespectful, but honestly, I haven't had that experience. Uh, me and Shadeja Green, who, um, that big fight that I had, she was my opponent there, and she beat the brakes off of me in that fight. She hit me real good. Um, but we were both talking to each other a little bit, and I remember she said at some point, she was like, um, pardon my cursing, but this is what she said.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: She's like, You're one tough bitch. And I was like, yeah, I know, because she's used to knocking everyone out. She couldn't knock me out. Um, and she's cool. I love that. We've chatted since then and sparred since then. And yeah, that's it.

Sara Emmerson: You're like, thank you, and here is another one to prove it.

Olivia Curry: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Okay, what's one thing you want people to understand about women's boxing?

Olivia Curry: Um, I want people to understand that it's still growing. Um, so Even though it's getting bigger and you can see incredibly high-level female fights now on TV, even headlining shows. Katie Taylor, who's like a pioneer of the sport, has her last fight this coming weekend. But we— people need to remember that women have only been really allowed to even do this for like a brief, brief window of time compared to the men. And like, even for me, You know, I started Muay Thai classes at a gym recreationally when I was 19, 20, right?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Olivia Curry: How good can I get after 15 years having started as an adult? Now I'm seeing there's like a girl in my gym that my coach is training who's 12, and she started probably 5 years ago. She's already better than I was at 26. And so like, it's only gonna get better from here.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Well, and you getting to be an inspiration, and who knows what comes with the stories that you're gonna be able to tell. Or with you coaching and training one day. You, you don't, yeah, never, you never know, um, how you get to be a part of, um, sometimes you get to be a part of the belts when, uh, you win them yourselves, and sometimes you get to be a part of the team too. So, yeah.

Olivia Curry: I hope I get to stay involved, um, somehow after I'm done.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, I, I hope, um, I'm sure you will in some way. Um, even if it's just as an inspiration to people. So, um, thank you. That's really encouraging. Uh, lastly, I always love to ask this question, and whether it's in boxing or life, what's one risk that you think everyone should take sometime in their life?

Olivia Curry: Mm-hmm. The, my answer to this I think is separate from the, it applies to life, but it's very different than all the rough and tumble boxing stuff we've been talking about. I think my answer is like, people should, should take the risk of feeling, of saying how they feel. People should take the risk of being emotionally open with other people. 'Cause I think that's the only way that you learn and grow and have as rich of a life as you possibly can. Even in the gym, like I was saying earlier, all the relationships that I've grown with some of these guys who you probably see us walking around town like, why is that group of people together, right? They're all different ages.

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Olivia Curry: from different racial, class backgrounds, grew up in different places, different genders, whatever. But we have this one thing in common, and because of that, we've also opened up emotionally to each other in a way that feels really special. And I think that not being too guarded and like really being human with other people is one of the best risks to take.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely. I could not agree more. And I'm so proud of you. There's such a depth to who you are. There's a, a grit, um, obviously in the ring. But, um, just knowing you, uh, Olivia and I, for those of you that don't know this, probably most of you, um, we worked together on some, um, editing and some films back in the day, um, when I was working in production too. And getting to know her, um, and seeing her kindness and her attention to detail and her professionalism on that side, just as a beautiful human. And then getting to see her in the ring, it's just amazing to see, um, both sides of you. And, um, I'm so proud of you. I'm proud of the risks that, um, you've taken. I'm proud of you, you for saying, hey, I'm gonna go for this. And if it works, great. And if not, guess what? My life was pretty great beforehand and it's gonna be okay. And I think many of you, um, that are listening here today can learn something from Olivia. And it's, um, it's this. Go for it. What, what, what's the best that can happen? Not what's the worst that could happen, but what is the best that could happen? The best that is, that could happen is that you try and you learn something from it and you're gonna have some wins. But guess what? We're all gonna have some, um, losses

too. And that's part of life. So if you're sitting on the fence and you're thinking, should I do this? Should I not? I don't know what it is that you're waiting to do, but I wanna tell you, go for it. And Olivia, you would tell 'em the same thing, right?

Olivia Curry: Definitely. I think, like I said, do it for the story. What if it works out well? And yeah, thank you so much for saying that. And I'm proud of you too. You're taking so many risks yourself. So, you know, it's the only way to live like a colorful, beautiful life, I think.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely. It is. Do it for the story. I absolutely love that. Thank you, Olivia, for being here. I can't wait for everyone to hear your story. And until next time, the best words that you could live is when people are at or saying to you, That Sounds Risky.