Sara Emmerson: Well, welcome back everyone to That Sounds Risky, the podcast where we explore the bold decisions and unexpected detours and courageous risks that shape extraordinary lives and businesses. I'm your host, Sara Emmerson, executive coach, speaker, and founder of Sara Emmerson Coaching. I believe that the life and business we truly want are almost always waiting on the other side of a risk that we're willing to take. Today's guest is Johanna Lyle, an interior designer and entrepreneur who has built a business helping people transform transform the spaces where they live and work. Behind every beautiful design is a business owner who has had to make difficult decisions, navigate uncertainty, and trust her vision even when the outcome wasn't guaranteed. And I'm also excited to have Johanna because she's a personal friend and she helped me design my office too. So I'm very, very honored to have her here today. Johanna, welcome to That Sounds Risky.

Johanna Lyle: Thanks so much for having me.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. So tell us a little bit about yourself and how you became an interior designer.

Johanna Lyle: Well, all thanks to you, Sarah. Um, I, uh, was not an interior designer from the beginning of my career. I started, um, in a lot of different other artistic endeavors. I was in theater growing up. I studied that in college and, um, did performance work with my sister in the Chicago area for a bit after I graduated. And then I shifted into video production and was working in video production for a few years as a producer and an editor. And then COVID happened, and like many people, I reevaluated my life and made some changes. And I think part of it was that I loved, loved, loved my team that I was working with at the the video production company, and I loved that we traveled a lot. And then when it became work from home, don't see your team, don't travel, I was like, is videos— is video really what I like most love?

Sara Emmerson: I—

Johanna Lyle: do I just love all these— the container for this work?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Well, I did like it. I think I just felt like I didn't have, you know, some of my coworkers would like, watch, like, films at night and study the things about them. And yeah, I just, like, had that energy. But I did notice that I had that energy about interior design, that I would be studying, you know, interior designers' work and felt like I just had this kind of insatiable hunger to learn about interior design and that Like I was thinking about it all the time and I had like all these creative ideas and this energy about it. And I think also being stuck at home was a time a lot of people were working on their homes and, and during COVID And so I, yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Tell us a really quick, not to like interrupt you about that, but during that season you started a pretty successful Instagram about working on your home with a special friend that you gained during that time too. You wanna tell us about that?

Johanna Lyle: Yeah, that sounds like it's a romantic special friend, but it's a dog. But who led me to my husband. So, you know.

Sara Emmerson: That is like, tell us all of it. Give us all, give us it all.

Johanna Lyle: So I adopted a dog the first day of shelter in place.

Sara Emmerson: And, um, because what else would you do? Yeah, of course.

Johanna Lyle: I was like, well, I'm gonna be stuck here. I also was like, you know, the only time to raise a puppy is when you're at home for a while. So if I even have just like 2 weeks here, Then bonus, a good opportunity.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Isn't that funny how we all thought, well, if I just have 2 weeks.

Johanna Lyle: Exactly.

Sara Emmerson: And then we're like, uh, wait, what?

Johanna Lyle: Years later. So yeah, I adopted a dog and at the same time all this interior design stuff was becoming really present for me. And so I started, I'd had some ideas about things to do to my rental apartment and like DIY projects. And I was like, what if I start an Instagram? of doing DIY stuff, but it's also like about my dog. So it's sort of like a dog Instagram too, because that makes me somehow feel less, um, self-conscious, I think, about like posting my home projects. 'Cause I'm also doing it with this twist of like, but here's also just a picture of my dog. And my dog— Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And I love the name of it. What was, tell everyone what the name of it is.

Johanna Lyle: It was called At Home with Howie. And Howie was, is my dog. Um, Howard is his full name. And so I started doing that and I just was really so, I mean, I like remember my first project. I, it's hilarious the things I was doing and how poorly I was doing them. Now I'm like, oh my gosh, the craftsmanship. This is terrible.

Sara Emmerson: And yet all of us at home were like following along thinking you were a genius. So.

Johanna Lyle: Well, yeah, yeah. Doing, finding alley finds, fixing 'em up, doing all sorts of Um, so that's kind of like how I started while I was still working at this other company, like dabbling in this, um, other industry. And then, uh, I was working with my amazing coach who was also doing something risky and starting her business, Sara Emmerson. And—

Sara Emmerson: Oh, thank you.

Johanna Lyle: And we, at the time, we were chatting a lot about what I wanted to do and had been curious about interior design, and I think I was even like, maybe I'm gonna just go try and do it and start my own company. And, um, uh, I saw a job posting for an assistant designer— or yeah, assistant designer— um, at a firm that I knew of in Chicago and had already like had a little bit of a connection with the owner there. And I brought it to Sarah and Sarah was like, you were like, I don't know, you should just go and like learn everything from this person before you start your business. And even if you're only there 6 months, think about like how much farther ahead you would be. And I was like, I don't know, I think maybe I could do it myself if I just go for it. But anyway.

Sara Emmerson: And you could. Yeah, absolutely.

Johanna Lyle: But oh my gosh, I'm so glad I didn't. I'm so glad. Really?

Sara Emmerson: Okay, tell me why. So those that are listening and thinking, hey, should I gain information or inspiration from others before I try to jump? Why was that the right decision for you?

Johanna Lyle: I saved so much headache and learning. I mean, I like didn't know anything. I didn't know anything. Now I look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, I didn't know I couldn't have done this job without learning all of that first.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Um, and I just gained so much experience so quickly. Um, I would've stayed there longer, you know, I think I went in thinking, okay, this is like a temporary stop on my journey maybe, but then I ended up like gaining so, so much knowledge and learning so much on the job and really enjoying my time there that if later my husband hadn't taken us away for his grad school, I probably, I would have stayed there longer.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: And so, yeah, I think it was just really valuable to, I feel like I got to kind of go to design school, but have a job and be paid to do it. So that was really, really beneficial.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. And in that season, obviously the learning of, uh, the design side from this woman and from this company was huge for you. It also gave you connections. It gave you, um, it helped build your bravery really to step into it when you decided to go into it on your own. Um, what else did it give you?

Johanna Lyle: I also would've like, I, I, um, would've completely undersold my services if I hadn't like known what was normal to charge. And, um, and also felt like confident enough to charge that by the time that I had learned all this stuff.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Um, I think, I think I would've undersold yourself. I would've been doing design at a really, like a much lower level.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Or I remember working on that even in some of our coaching when you were like, what should I charge? How do I do this? Blah, blah. And coming back and going, hey, we're gonna, you need to be able to make this not just an expensive hobby, because really at home with Howie was a hobby.

Johanna Lyle: Totally.

Sara Emmerson: Right? But you were looking at like, how do I make this a career? How did coaching help you in that season of really transitioning and owning what you wanted to do next?

Johanna Lyle: Yeah, I think that I, um, I don't, I don't know. I just, I, I really remember specific, I mean, it was like 6 years ago now, so I'm trying to— Right. No, exactly. Um, but the thing that I like most take away from it was that you were the one that really encouraged me about applying for this job. And I, I think that like I was a little cocky, probably. I was like, I don't know if I need to go start over as a design assistant and make like no money and, um, take a huge pay cut and like go do that. And get everyone coffee again. Like, I'm, I'm in my late 20s. I feel like I already did that with other careers. I'm like, don't want to kind of start over in this position. Um, so I think it was just really helpful advice that you gave me at that time that I couldn't necessarily see myself and, um, helped me think about it in a different way. I think you were the one that was sort of like, this is like going to design school, but you're going to get paid for it, like versus—

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Johanna Lyle: You know?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Well, and what I loved seeing in that season of, of speaking with you and, uh, you really choosing this as a, as a next full career for yourself, because that transition's hard for people, right? You're going in one direction and you're, you're thinking, hey, this could be lucrative and good and I, I could really love this, but I have this nagging desire.

Johanna Lyle: Mm-hmm.

Sara Emmerson: that won't go away of this creative project that I really wanna do. And I think that's the thing that I, I saw within you is that mental shift of being willing to start over.

Johanna Lyle: Mm-hmm.

Sara Emmerson: Like there's so many people that aren't willing to do that. And so you took that risk even in that moment that you were like, well, worst case scenario, I can go back to what I'm doing.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Like I can always go back and find another video editing job, or I love these people, they'd probably take me back again. And it's going well, but I, I wanna try this. And so I saw your mental shift, um, and your, uh, your desire to actually, uh, and belief that you could actually go for something. You'd done that in other scenarios too. It's not like every job that you had done. I mean, I, I think of the tour that your sister and you, uh, you were on creatively in your performance and things like that. You'd taken risks before, but this one felt bigger. Because you already had something going that was really, um, wonderful. And so I saw that mental shift for you, Jo, where you were able to, um, be willing to start over again and be willing to allow it to either flourish or fail and, and it not be a big deal. Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: And I think I remember too, at that time, our conversations about, um, I think I had always had this entrepreneurial bent.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: And I felt like I had started little things or tried to start other little businesses in my 20s, um, that I lost energy on and didn't stick with. And I was self— I think I like had this, this, um, thought that I'm not good at— I'm not gonna stick with it.

Sara Emmerson: What—

Johanna Lyle: or what if I don't stick with it? What if I—

Sara Emmerson: the fear of trusting yourself that you'd follow through.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah. And remember you saying something like, so what? Like, I think you even mentioned Patrick, who is going to be on Trend Advisor. Yeah. Saying like he owns like a million URLs or something.

Sara Emmerson: Like he always is trying. Yeah, he's already— he's always trying these new things. Yeah. Him and Jeremy. Him and Jeremy are always starting new things. Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: And that like somehow just helped me, I think, release this like, um, judgment that I had on myself about that. Like, well, I don't know if I— what if I just like— what if people start seeing me as this person who's like always throwing out new businesses and then like 2 weeks later is done with it? You know, I want people to respect my career and like if I say I'm doing something, that I do it. And I was just nervous about What if it doesn't work out? Or what if I change my mind or something? Um, and, but I, I, I don't think I'm gonna, I think I'm in this for a long time.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. I think you're in it to win it.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: It's already, it's already being, uh, been really successful for you. So you made the decision, um, in, in COVID, you got a dog, you got a new career. Uh, your dog led you to your boyfriend, now husband.

Johanna Lyle: Yep.

Sara Emmerson: Um, and give us that little snippet. How did Howie lead you to, to the next part of your life?

Johanna Lyle: I have to keep reminding myself that, um, Howie brought me a lot of great things because currently in my life, Howie is driving me insane. Um, but he's a very high energy pup that has always been a handful. And now that I have a baby, I'm like, oh my God.

Sara Emmerson: Oh, he wants your energy too. Yeah. Oh, that's another thing. Yeah, you're a new mom. Congrats.

Johanna Lyle: Thank you. But anyway, Howie, when he was about 6 months old, we were at the dog park and a very cute man walked in with his yellow lab. And Howie was wreaking havoc in the dog park as he typically does. And so it was an opening for us to start talking. Um, the rest is history, as they say.

Sara Emmerson: That is so amazing. And got to be at your incredible wedding, and it was so beautiful. And just to see that whole relationship unfold and getting to, um, see you now be a, a mom and a wife is really exciting and a little behind the scenes too. Um, do you wanna tell people how we met originally?

Johanna Lyle: Sure. Sure. Um, Sarah babysat my sister. Her and I. I did.

Sara Emmerson: I did.

Johanna Lyle: My parents were out of town and it was like an overnight, couple-night thing.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Um, I remember Sarah trying to— we like hadn't hit any red lights and we were like trying to keep going.

Sara Emmerson: Correct. We were playing a game where we would try not to stop the car no matter what, um, before we got home. I don't know if it was a safe game, but we did it and we We didn't hit any red lights.

Johanna Lyle: I also had some like weird car trouble during that time as well.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, I don't know. Something happened with a car place. I don't remember it. Um, I'm, I'm sorry that it's still memorable for you.

Johanna Lyle: And oh, the other memory I have is going to Woodfield Mall and that like weird alien restaurant.

Sara Emmerson: Well, yes. What was that? It was like you were in outer space or something. I don't think it exists anymore.

Johanna Lyle: I might be making up this memory because I can't—

Sara Emmerson: No, it existed and we went to it. If anyone listening can remember what it was called, Maybe somebody even listening worked there or something, but it existed. And so we went to this alien restaurant. You went in and it felt like you went underground, even though that wouldn't make sense. It should be up high if it was, yeah, I knew outer space, but, but I can't remember. It was dark and it, yeah, I think they were, had costumes or something. I don't know. But it was interesting. Yeah. Very fun. But, um, we have known each other for many years and so I've gotten to see you grow, um, not just as, uh, an incredible woman, but as now, uh, mom and a wife and as a business owner. And so being a business owner now, you're like 6, 7 years into this?

Johanna Lyle: Yes? No, I'm 5 years into this career, only 3 years into my business.

Sara Emmerson: Oh, 3 years into the business. Why? I, years just, um, are not, not coming. So 3 years into the business, but you've gained a lot of success and momentum in those 3 years. And so, Looking at that, what were some of the— we obviously, everybody on this podcast says, okay, That Sounds Risky. I had to take a risk. What's one of the biggest, biggest risks you took as an entrepreneur and a business owner when you look back at the last 3 years?

Johanna Lyle: Starting my business was a huge risk. Um, yeah, I, so I was working for that other designer in Chicago and I kind of rose in the company to, um, At the end, I was, I had like just gotten promoted to lead designer when I left. And I, my then fiancé, now husband, was also wanting to do a career change and found this very specific program at Boston University that he wanted to go do and applied and got in. And so then We packed up and moved to Boston, and I thought that I would go work for another designer there. Um, I knew that I couldn't stay with my, my existing company when we left the state. And so, um, I was kind of like on that track, and then the more I thought about it, I just like had no energy. for it. I was just like, I just got to this place where it's hard to design for somebody else. Like, it's, it's—

you have to really learn their style and learn, you know, what they like, because you're, you're designing for a client, but you're also designing for them, like the lead designer, um, the principal. Um, and I just felt like I had just gotten to the point where I was like understood.

Sara Emmerson: Understanding it. Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: But finally delivering designs that I felt like she really liked. And, um, it— I just did not want to start over that process again with somebody else. And I had this just like kind of weird gut feeling of that I think I just need to go do my own thing and start my own business. And But it like didn't make sense at all because we were about to lose— I mean, my, my husband was gonna go to zero income while he was in grad school. And, um, thankfully his parents were paying for school, but like I would be paying for our life in Boston. And Boston—

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Expensive. Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: I mean, like 2 times the rent of Chicago. It was—

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: A very expensive city. And, um, make it— being working for an interior designer, you don't make a lot of money. I was not making a lot of money at my previous design firm, but it was like, felt more safe. It felt safer to go work for somebody else than start my own business, right?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: I would have made $0 in my first year.

Sara Emmerson: Who knew?

Johanna Lyle: Um, and, uh, I think, I think that other people in my life who are maybe not as risk risk-averse as me, or more risk-averse than me, um, maybe were skeptical of my decision.

Sara Emmerson: So people were saying, That Sounds Risky. Like, they—

Johanna Lyle: and they weren't saying it out loud.

Sara Emmerson: Well, not that, but like in their mind. Yeah, they're not all coming up to you saying that phrase, but, um, they're in, in their mind were giving you feedback that, yeah, this might not be Right. The, the safest choice. Um, what kept you going towards this dream and goal even though those voices were there?

Johanna Lyle: Well, to me, the time I could, I was behind it because I felt like the timing was never gonna be right.

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Johanna Lyle: I was like, so once he finishes grad school, we're gonna wanna start a family and then that's also not gonna be a good time to start a business.

Sara Emmerson: Right.

Johanna Lyle: And so when am I going to do this then? And also while we're in Boston and he's working hard at grad school and working a lot of evenings, like, I'd like to also have a passion project that I'm working hard on. Like, you know, he's going to be busy. You wanted to be busy too. I'll be busy too with building my— maybe this is just like our building time and we're going to do this, you know, together.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Transition. And so I think I felt like I, I bought— I, I knew I was going to do this eventually, so it was like, I think this is an— I think this is a good time to do it. And, um, I just like really— I, I do think there's like a woo-woo element of just like when you have that gut feeling that you know you can do something.

Sara Emmerson: And trusting that.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah, yeah.

Sara Emmerson: I think so many of us discount that gut feeling.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Right? We have it. We think, I, I'm pretty sure I could do this. But we, um, I, I think we start to borrow people's belief whether we mean to or not. And sometimes that belief is in a positive way.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: I say that to clients all the time. You can borrow my belief that you can do this. But oftentimes we start to borrow people's fear beliefs too, right? And we discount that gut feeling that we have. And so, Knowing the people that surround you. Obviously, you have a lot of great mentors and family and people that would speak truth into you. And you had skills that were somewhat of a safety net because you were like, I'm gonna try this and I'm gonna go after it. But if this doesn't work, it's actually okay. I could go back to video design and editing. I could go work for an interior designer in Boston. Like, you— Didn't go into this without knowledge that there's other things I could go and do.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah, yeah. Or like, I thought— I had the thought like, okay, well, if I'm not bringing in enough money, if I can't get this off the ground, like, maybe I'll need to get a part-time job while I build this.

Sara Emmerson: Or yeah, I call those business bridges, right? There's a ton— tons of times that we're starting something and we need that business bridge, that part-time thing. Sometimes it's a full-time thing. I had a business bridge for a while while I was building this. And, and there's things that you, you go, okay, I know this is temporary, but I'm gonna do this until this makes sense full-time. And so, um, you had that, that thought, but you get to Boston and tell us what happened. You get there and you, you launch.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah, I launched like pretty much right when we moved and I knew that the only way I was really gonna make it work was flying back to Chicago for work. Um, so I wasn't even really marketing myself that much in Boston because I didn't have like contractors, vendors, all these people that I had built relationships with in Chicago. I knew we weren't gonna be there long-term, so I didn't wanna like build my business there and then have to move it again. And yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Um, so a lot of your clientele was in the Chicagoland area? Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: So I just knew that like the people at my network and everything, like this is where it's where I'm gonna get work and I will just fly back once a month is what I decided.

Sara Emmerson: It's amazing. I, um, so you created a business that worked for you and your life that nobody told you, hey, look, you, you're gonna start a business. You're gonna work, um, in Chicago instead of in Boston, but you're gonna run it from Boston. Like, I think sometimes people say no to risky ideas because they're like, well, that doesn't make sense. Yeah. Well, it doesn't have to, right?

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: It doesn't always have to make sense. If, if you would've put it on paper before you started doing it, it didn't actually all line up.

Johanna Lyle: No.

Sara Emmerson: But when you started doing it, you're like, this is what is going to be the most lucrative. We always wanna look at what's going to be an actual business, not just an expensive hobby. And so you were able to make it a business by keeping those relationships in Chicago.

Johanna Lyle: Right.

Sara Emmerson: And keeping that going there. That's amazing.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah, yeah, it, um, yeah, it ended up being okay. But I— so I just, I launched. I thankfully already had a bit of an Instagram presence and following, so that's probably where I got most of my initial clients. Um, so I started posting about the business and that I was doing this and started getting some inquiries and, um, you know, flew back and did some consultations and then, uh, like started working pretty quickly. Um, you know, sent out stuff. I was closing most of the proposals that I was sending out. Um, which maybe in retrospect is like, means I was charging too little. I don't know. But I, um, was getting work and that was great and awesome. And I ended up making like double or almost triple what I was making working for Another designer in my first year of business. So it ended up being like absolutely the right choice for my family to do it.

Sara Emmerson: That's incredible. I'm so proud of you. So, so incredibly proud of you. And that's what we often hear. A lot of times people are so fearful that it's going to be zero and it ends up being way more than what they ever thought. And, um, I think for, for many people, um, That is a surprise for you. You, on the backside of that, um, as that started to happen, um, what were your thoughts and feelings? Were you like, I actually can't believe that this is real? Like, what, what is that feeling like for you?

Johanna Lyle: Um, yeah, it was like emotional. I think I was like, I mean, I like maybe many entrepreneurs, I don't know, but I like love counting my money.

Sara Emmerson: Of course, right? Everyone's looking at it. I'm like, I'm logging into QuickBooks and like, oh my goodness.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: And, um, I think I didn't know that that was like such a— I didn't know as what I would be like as a business owner. And I didn't know that like sales was something that I was going to really enjoy and be good at. And I, um, Yeah. So like when I was winning business, I was like, this is, this is so fun. Yeah. I didn't know that I was going to enjoy that part so much or that it would feel like so rewarding to feel like I actually made this money. I'm, you know.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. From your hard work and from taking that risk to put that, that offer out there and just like have a salary that like appears in my, like, you know, a bank account every month or whatever.

Johanna Lyle: I actually got this money every month. Um, so I think as it was like rolling in and I was projecting out like, okay, what am I making? Like, how much? Like, I are— oh my gosh, I'm already, I'm already at this point. I'm already at my salary from— and it's only Q1 or Q2 or whatever.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Um, so I think that felt really exciting. And I remember when I hit 6 figures and I was just like, I was like in tears. I mean, I, I just was Totally flabbergasted that happened. I did not have any expectation that that would happen in my first year in business.

Sara Emmerson: That's incredible. I'm so proud of you. And, um, what we see in that too though, is you had, we, we look back a couple years prior, you had to be willing to go back to maybe less than what you were really ex— like when you're in the video world, you had to be willing to go back to being that assistant. and making less to learn so that you could make triple the amount later.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And I think a lot of people aren't willing to do that. A lot of people aren't willing to go backwards to go forwards. And I like to think about it. Um, uh, my dad had a company called Slingshot, the Slingshot Group. But I love that analogy of a slingshot. Often we have to be pulled back in order to launch. Amen. Yeah. And when we are taking risks, if we're willing to do that, I see people who go so much further. It's not that you can't have success, but if you're willing to have the back pull, yeah, you can go further. Do you feel like that was part of really what helped you?

Johanna Lyle: Oh yeah, definitely. And it was humbling.

Sara Emmerson: Of course. Yeah. There's a lot of humbling. Being an entrepreneur is often humbling.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely, I think it's like, I will always remember this. I, in my 20s, I just felt like I was good at a lot of things. I mean, I could be good at doing a bunch of different types of jobs, and I was kind of a generalist in that way. And I think when I came to the video production company, it was called Tectonic that I was working at, then Advocate Creative previously to that. And my boss Doug was like, you know, I think he kind of called that out in me a little bit, the generalist thing, and said that they say that like the indicator, the highest indicator of job satisfaction is being an expert at something.

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Johanna Lyle: And, um, that has stuck with me for a long time. And what's interesting is I think being a business owner is the way to be an expert at being a generalist, if that makes sense. Like, you do have to kind of wear a lot of hats. So it's like, I get to do that in a way that feels satisfying. But I think what was most humbling about going back and starting over in a different career, in a different industry, is I was the opposite of an expert. I was an absolute novice at that. And that was really hard because it's like, it is not satisfying. You feel like you're not contributing and you can't like perform at the level that you want to and feel like at this point, at this age, at this whatever milestone that you're at, that you should be able to be contributing at a higher level. And, and the people that are at those lead designer positions are your age and you're like, I'm Yeah, I'm not, I'm an, I'm a design assistant right now. And that was definitely humbling for sure.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. In the business owner, entrepreneur, and designer, because you're right, those are all different hats. What do you feel like you're an expert in right now? What's one area that you feel like you're an expert in right now?

Johanna Lyle: I don't know. You get to a level where you think, like, I don't know if you ever get to a level where you think you're an expert. Right.

Sara Emmerson: Well, especially with our, uh, the creative mind, you always want to be better at something. But where, where do you feel your interest or your, um, passions most drawn towards? And you're seeing some traction in that. Often that's where the expertise lies.

Johanna Lyle: I think I'm really like, I'm at a place where I'm really, um, excited about growing my business right now. And, uh, I got this big honor this year of being—

Sara Emmerson: Yes, you did.

Johanna Lyle: Uh, like Next Wave Designer by House Beautiful magazine, which Is probably means not much to most people, but in the industry feels like a big deal.

Sara Emmerson: And yeah, it is a big deal. Congratulations.

Johanna Lyle: Yo. And so that just was really like a morale boost, I think, of like, hey, somebody has noticed what I'm doing out here and thinks I've got something, you know? And so that has felt like a nice catalyst, um, and some energy to grow the business. I am sitting in my brand new studio space, which I'm really excited about.

Sara Emmerson: Congratulations.

Johanna Lyle: Signed the lease, um, started loading some stuff in here, so it's very much not done yet. But, um, I, yeah, I think like I know that the next steps for me are having a space outside my home to work in and having clients be able to come here and have a more elevated experience and eventually bringing on and building a team.

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Johanna Lyle: And, um, and so that I'm, I'm spending a lot of time like being a business owner, um, working on the business. Right now, um, as well as serving my clients, which I'm always—

Sara Emmerson: yeah. What part of design do you love most?

Johanna Lyle: Um, I love the initial part of designing. I love like walking into a space and starting to think about what it can be and, um, building a vision and concepting and, uh, doing the, the selecting and the design work. Um, And I think that there's like, I just love when inspiration strikes, you know, when you're like, I'm really struggling with this. And then you see, like today I was reading my son a book this morning and the illustrations were so beautiful and really unique. And I was taking pictures of them. So I was like, that's an awesome color scheme. And like, wouldn't that be amazing in a room? And, um, So when I find things like that, that I can spark your— or like when I get surprised by and delighted by finding a really cool light fixture that I've never seen before or something. I love vintage things because they're often just so surprising. You kind of get to a point where you feel like you've seen everything.

Sara Emmerson: Everything. Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Um, I think I feel like I know everything that's out there, even though that's probably not true, but it feels like that. So when I, when I stumble across a piece that that is just like, oh my gosh, I've never seen that before. Yeah, it's really inspiring. So those are things.

Sara Emmerson: How would you— yeah, how would you define your style of design? Like, what would— I mean, obviously you can design anything somebody wants you to in the, in the way that they want you to, but if somebody gives you a blank canvas, what's your style?

Johanna Lyle: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say that that's even true, that I can do anything. Like, I think it's really, um, You know, if someone came to me and said they really wanted like a minimalist modern design, I'd be like, okay, I'm not really the designer for you.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: I think I lean a little bit more towards maximalism. I love a lot of color and layer and pattern. I love an eclectic mix of eras and vintage and modern pieces kind of sitting next to each other. Yeah, I love really like full interiors that feel like you kind of walk in and you are awed and surrounded by the mood that that room brings. So I love working in old homes and historic homes, though here in Raleigh, I'm doing kind of shifting into more new construction because that's just more of the game here. And so I'm excited about kind of bringing that, the character of old homes into what? Into new—

Sara Emmerson: The new home. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Have you ever had a project that Didn't go as you expected. Maybe there was a failure or some learnings there. Um, and what did you do about it?

Johanna Lyle: Yeah. Yeah. I had a project, um, recently that I had to sort of walk away from it for the, for the first time.

Sara Emmerson: Wow.

Johanna Lyle: I've never done that. And, uh, That's hard. Yeah, it is hard. I think that the, like, expectations were just misaligned, and I think I was, um, I took it on kind of knowing that maybe it wasn't a good fit, but I was at the time moving here and it was local, and I was excited about having a local project. And, um, kind of trying to make it work. And I think it's hard when I come from like this DIY background, but this is a luxury service. Like, this is not something everyone can afford to do, like work with an interior designer. It's a, it's a luxury to do that.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, absolutely.

Johanna Lyle: I, um, I think there's like, and I remember my, uh, boss when I worked for the design firm in Chicago saying something to this effect, but it's like when people feel like they are stretching, stretching, stretching to, to work with you, um, it's tough because they feel like this is the most money they've ever spent on anything. And often it's a small project for you.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Right.

Johanna Lyle: And that doesn't mean you're not like all in and valuing it, but they're just— their expectations—

Sara Emmerson: Expectations. Yep. Misaligned expectations. Yep.

Johanna Lyle: And they're expecting to like— the product is gonna like— the end result is gonna be like the most luxurious thing they've ever seen, super high end, when you're like, look, this is actually kind of like the low end of—

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, this is all your dollar is gonna get you in this. Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Like But so it's just like an expectations thing that's really tough. And so I think that's, that was a lesson I kind of had to learn the hard way. And, um, yeah, I really lost sleep over it. It really, I like really hate disappointing people. I, I want to provide something that is gonna be awesome and I like wanna stick to my word and I wanna do all these things and it's just, I kind of had to draw a boundary.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Yeah. How did, uh, how did you internally, uh, take the learnings from that and not make it something that just stopped you in your tracks?

Johanna Lyle: Um, I think I just like knew that it just was— I was like, things are only going to get worse from here, you know? I, I was like, we're at like a good stopping point where I've like done some design work. You could take this and run with it. If we keep kind of going down this road, you're only going to end up more mad at me. I'm going to be upset. I just think this is not working. And so I think I had this sense that I really felt like I was doing the right thing by them and the right thing by me by saying, I think let's just cut it here.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Hopefully they felt that way. But I think—

Sara Emmerson: Well, and that's brave as a business owner to— and I, I've heard you say that a couple times where you're like, no, if you're— if they're looking for a minimalist, that's not me. And it— this isn't going well. We need to part ways. And, um, I think every business owner and entrepreneur could say they've had those moments. Um, but recognizing the limitations of, uh, the either the client or of yourself is not a failure. That's actually really brave and in service. Like we talk about sometimes saying no to people's actually in service of them.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Like breaking that was because you were like, this is gonna get worse, not better.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And I'm not gonna be able to do what you're expecting. And so in that, you're, you're serving them by ending it.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: In essence. Yeah. Um, what are you gonna take moving forward in, into your business because of this learning?

Johanna Lyle: Um, I definitely think that I had like this, a gut, that a gut feeling that I ignored, okay, uh, early on about that like being a problem maybe with this potential client and project. And I, um, didn't listen to it and I Now I'm like, I'm not going to do that again because I feel bad that I didn't. It hurt them and me by me not respecting that sense that maybe this isn't a perfect match.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely.

Johanna Lyle: And I think it's hard. I have some inquiry or leads right now that I'm— it's just always hard. It's hard to know. Sometimes you do have little yellow and red flags, with people. And sometimes it's just like, is this just an education thing? Like, do we just need to— do I need to explain some things and then it's going to be okay? So it is, it is really hard. And I'm always learning to be more, um, I don't know, to have a better radar, I guess.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: So I don't, I don't know. I think I've learned the lesson, but maybe I haven't. Sometimes I think something just seems really appealing and you're like, well, I guess I'm just going to ignore that this thing feels a little off.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. One of the things I work on with, uh, a lot of my clients is what I like to call intuition journals, because that intuition, that gut-level knowledge, um, happens more often than we think. And, um, there's that just knowing that happens. And, um, for some people that's just a knowing in their gut. Some people that's a, a more spiritual thing of, um, feeling like they're, they're being guided in some way. And so I love to tell people, um, if you're wanting that gut-level intuition to grow, it's actually a skill that can grow.

Johanna Lyle: Mm-hmm.

Sara Emmerson: And anytime we focus on something, it flourishes, right? And so when we put focus on it, and that can be good and bad, right? We focus on too many of the bad things and all of a sudden all we see is the negative. But when we start to wanna grow this, I always encourage people, Go get yourself a new journal. Um, you know, that's always fun to go to the, the store and get yourself a new journal or go on Amazon. Um, and then literally write down on one side of the, uh, on the one side of the page, the date, and then the, what you interpreted or what you had an intuition about.

Johanna Lyle: Mm-hmm.

Sara Emmerson: And then on the right side of it, put result and date and leave it open.

Johanna Lyle: Mm-hmm.

Sara Emmerson: You're just writing down, hey, on this day today, I have this feeling.

Johanna Lyle: Hmm.

Sara Emmerson: And then I'm gonna wait and see what happens and give yourself the, and sometimes that wait and see, like I, I had a client yesterday that, um, uh, ironically he needed a 911 session and he is like, hey, I need to talk through my job. Something's just happened. I'm feeling like this isn't gonna go well. And I am, and I might need to be making a career shift. And then literally 3 hours later he emailed me and he was like, no, actually I was right. I just was laid off and I need to meet with you ASAP and we need to figure this out. He intuited that obviously sooner, but he'd been feeling that for a little while now. And, um, there's times that we, we get that immediate, that, uh, immediate result, and then there's times that it can be months.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Right. But, um, what you're gonna start to see if you do this little journal for anyone that's listening is you're gonna start to see that your gut is off more, right? more often than you think. Hmm. And we start to trust that because often people just think, well, is that just my feeling? Is that my— and sometimes it is our feeling. Sometimes we're biased because of different things. But when we're starting to pay attention to it, we can see, oh no, I just was really hoping that that was gonna be good because it was a high, high ticket.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Job. Or I was just hoping it was gonna be good cuz it was the first one that I had in Boston. Um, but I didn't pay attention to the misalignment, or I didn't pay attention to how much they were expecting for this little price, the, the misalignment in the pricing. So anyway, that might be helpful for somebody listening, um, listening or for you, but I know it's been helpful for me to just build that intuition.

Johanna Lyle: Um, yeah. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Um, when you're serving your clients, what's one lesson that you've learned about the, um, about how to explain expectations to them? You've talked about the misalignment of expectations. How have you learned That's a good question.

Johanna Lyle: Um, I think that I, I learn from other designers all the time. Like, I'm on, um, Facebook groups and Instagram groups, and, uh, I go to gatherings and meet other designers, and I listen to podcasts and So I, and a lot of times people say the same stuff about how to, about like issues that have come up with their clients and how they've worked through them. And I just learn a lot from that without having experienced all of those things yet. So I think one of the things that I've learned is just talking about things upfront as much as possible. Like for instance, here's a great Example, uh, what is it gonna cost, right? Like, you wanna do a kitchen renovation and people don't know what it costs. People don't know what it costs. And information on the internet is often wrong. Like, I don't know what ChatGPT is telling you your kitchen renovation's gonna cost. And yeah, accurate.

Sara Emmerson: Well, and what one kitchen resi— I mean, what one person's expectation of a renovation is and someone else's is Completely different. And the size of the kitchen, you're like, it depends on what your kitchen's like. Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Level of appliances do you want? You know, right. A huge range, definitely. But I think that like the kitchens I design tend to start at a certain price point. And I, um, I think that like I've been afraid in the past years, including when I first started, afraid to sort of claim that.

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Johanna Lyle: And say that upfront. And now I'm much more comfortable, like, in the consultation, on the inquiry call, like, talking about budget, giving information about, like, what these things cost upfront, as much as I can. I mean, there's some parts of it that I can't tell you. I can't tell you what your whole gut renovation's gonna cost. We need to do a lot of exploratory work. We need to talk about it. There's a lot of— there's no way I can just throw out a number. But I do think that being confident about that upfront is important. I think also being confident about my process and the way I work upfront is important also. And just not being afraid that they're going to say no if you say that they're not going to—

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: If you say that stuff, like, I think it's way better to just, before they've become your client, to talk about, um, those types of expectations, like, as early as possible. Um, and then there's hopefully no surprises later.

Sara Emmerson: How important is it to be willing to let them say no in your mind, like, before the consultation even happens? Like, so you're not so attached to it.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah, I don't know. I think there's a— I think there's specifically when we talk about like money, I think that, you know, what I'm doing, it's not just my services, it's like obviously this whole investment that they're making of like on their furnishings or on their renovation, on their new construction. And so I think that I just lost my train of thought. What was the question?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, no, how important it is to allow people to say no. Like, I think so as a new entrepreneur, we're, we're, uh, oftentimes I hear from a lot of the clients that I work with, well, I just, how, how do I get them to say yes? Well, when you're so tied to getting them to say yes, that's where the misalignment in expectations comes.

Johanna Lyle: Mm-hmm.

Sara Emmerson: That's where we end up getting ourselves into situations that we overpromise and, um, underdeliver, not because we mean to, but because we can't for the pr— for the price or, um, so I find that it's really imp— important to walk in and be super neutral and say, hey, this is what I offer. And if that doesn't work for you, that's okay.

Johanna Lyle: Totally. I think that comes with having experienced what it means to have the rub of this wasn't a good fit.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Yep.

Sara Emmerson: We have to have those rubs in order to have the comfort.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah. When you're in that position, you're like, I never wanna do this to myself again.

Sara Emmerson: Right.

Johanna Lyle: Losing sleep over this. I feel so stressed out by it. I like, this is a terrible place to be, you know, to be a good working relationship. And it's not worth the money. It's just not worth it. I mean, I, yeah, I would rather be having to scale back my business or something, or take— I, I would just rather not be at the financial goals that I'm at, that I'm hitting, and, um, not have the daily stress of a—

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: Bad fit. So I think that once you have that experience, it's a lot easier to confidently set those expectations and not try to be like, pick me, pick me, pick me.

Sara Emmerson: Well, and I don't know, um, right now my daughter and her friends are always like, oh, they're a pick me, right? There's like that whole idea right now. And you're like, yeah, I don't wanna be a pick me. Yeah. Um, so for you, I also want you to brag on some of the fun things that you've gotten to, to design and Maybe some of the things that you, um, have been mo— most life-giving to you as a, an entrepreneur? What are some of those risks that you've taken that have paid off in a great way, not just monetarily, but in a, um, exciting designer way? Hmm.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah. Um, I had this great project that came to me super early, like I think months after I started my business. Um, And, uh, and how did it come to you?

Sara Emmerson: How did, like, people that are listening, like, how did these things come to you?

Johanna Lyle: Instagram.

Sara Emmerson: Instagram. So it, you being out and starting your Instagram with—

Johanna Lyle: Yeah. Which was really surprising to me because I was, they were following along when I was like, I, I did what they say not to do, which is like switch what your account is.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. There's no, all the rules are off, people. Yeah, please do what, do what you want and people will find you no matter what.

Johanna Lyle: I had built like, I don't know, maybe I had, I don't know, 5K or something followers at that point. I was like, as a DIYer, and I was like, I mean, this is adjacent, me becoming a luxury interior designer, but that is different. That is a very different thing. It's like close enough but adjacent. I was like, I'm not gonna restart my account after this.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, you already have people watching.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah, so I didn't. Um, and so this client had been watching me be a goofball basically on my DIY account and like in overalls covered in paint half the time and like not polished, doing my own condo, which was like, I didn't have a big budget. I was like, you know, doing it myself. I was scrappy. I love that. And somehow this client with a beautiful home and resources was— somehow she wanted to work with me. And so she brought me in for consultation, and I thought it was just going to be a consultation. And I was like, oh man, I really wish I would get to work in this home because this is so cool.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: In the consultation, I was giving her some ideas, and this often happens, which I think sometimes you write projects off as like, this isn't going to be a good one, and then it turns into something that's good. So consultation, she's like, but what if I just Like, could I pay you to just actually do these things, you know, that you're telling me I should do? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, you can.

Sara Emmerson: Okay, in that moment though, you hadn't done a lot of this by yourself yet, right? So I think a lot of people discount this. They're like, what do I do if they say that and I haven't done it before? Johanna, tell them what they do.

Johanna Lyle: I mean, I think you, you can confidently say the things you have done that, that give you the skills to take your work to the next level. I mean, I'm doing that right now. You never stop doing that, you know?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, exactly.

Johanna Lyle: Like, now I'm trying to get this next level of type of project, and I haven't done that before, and I'm trying to make it sound like I have all the skills because I do. I believe that I do have all the skills to do it. I just haven't done all those things together in one, you know, before. And so, um, And so I think you just kind of, I mean, it is fake it till you make it a little bit.

Sara Emmerson: A little bit.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: But you, you had the, the street cred to, to do it. You just hadn't had the opportunity. And so what you're looking for in that realm is you're always wanting to grow your skill while you're waiting for the opportunity. And then if the opportunity arises, you don't go in and say, well, I've never done that before. You, you say, yeah, of course I can do it. And then you surround yourself with people that know how to do it if you, if you run into a problem. And I love that you, you said that word scrappy. Um, that has been something over the years, you, with the reinvention of your careers or the different things that you've done. I remember when you were even doing video and you're like, yeah, I'm gonna go fly to Africa and do this huge project and by myself. And I haven't done this before. And I, and I remember us talking about that in one of our meetings together and you're like fearful of that. And we're, and, at the end you were like, oh yeah, I got it. I did it. Like, I'm gonna go around the world. But it's that, yeah, there's gonna be fear that I haven't done this before. That's normal. But that's what bravery is, is stepping in and going, yeah, I've got, I'm an excellent problem solver and I will figure it out in that moment. So you said yes to her saying, hey, could you do this? And then what?

Johanna Lyle: And then slowly it just became like an amazing project and Um, they had more budget than I thought they did, and it just like, we were able to do some really, like, really interesting, cool things. They were like, they weren't, um, I've had some clients who are basically like, yes, just that design looks good. You know, they definitely, there was, there was a process, there was a collaboration. Um, but overall, I'd say that they were very trusting.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: And, um, they also were like really game to do some bold stuff and some exciting things that, you know, some clients only want their, their comfort zone is like, if I haven't seen anyone do that, then I don't know if I want to do it. And these clients were not like that. They were like, if you haven't, you know, you can show me your vision, like, we can get behind it. And yeah, so I was able to really push, push, I think, on that project and do some things that other people might not have been game to do. And, um, so I think that it really helped me. It's, it's like my favorite project I've done, and I think it has helped, um, me grow my business and helped me get the Next Wave thing. And, and, um, yeah, so that was exciting. That was a good one. So exciting.

Sara Emmerson: Uh, for you, somebody comes to you and says, Johanna, why should I hire an interior designer?

Johanna Lyle: What do you say? I would say that if you've ever tried to do it yourself and you're a busy person, you will know how hard it is to do something as simple as like pick the right rug. Like, I just was in a client's home yesterday. She's— they moved into this much bigger home than they'd had before. She has 2 little boys. She's busy. She's like, I'm trying to get this done and I can't for the life of me pick these things. And I keep picking stuff and then it comes and it's not the right scale and it's not the right size and I don't like it. And I just don't have time for this. And but I know what I want my home to be.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: And I want to feel like I can have people over and that it's completed. And, and, and so I think that the ideal person or someone who should hire an interior designer is someone who's in that boat and feels like they are They know, like, kind of what they hope their home would feel like, but they feel like they're— and they have the resources to do it. And they would like— they really align with the— I think you should find a designer where you really align with their portfolio and feel like you can trust them. Like, I think that that's huge because their best work is going to be when you're like, I trust you to do what you're really good at. And I'm not gonna get— I absolutely have opinions and I'm gonna bring in my ideas and like my inspiration and all of that. But I'm not gonna like get in the way of you doing what you're really good at. And I think that that ends up being like the best result is when that client, when the client just really trusts the designer.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: And, you know, my job is also project management. It's not just like picking out pretty fabrics and things, but it's really taking— when you're doing a construction project, like, that's a big— people fantasize, I think, about like what this— what like a house remodel—

Sara Emmerson: Until they do it, and then they're like, this was hard.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah. And I'm— if you're doing it on your own, like, if you've ever had that experience, like managing the contractor and, um, managing the budget and all of that and making sure everything You know, if you, if you do it yourself, it's like, this is often the story that I hear is people are like, my contractor needs me to pick all the lighting by next week.

Sara Emmerson: Yes.

Johanna Lyle: Oh my gosh, girl, if you were working with me, we've done that before you ever demoed that house. Like, all of that has been designed and selected. We're not in that, like, that rush zone.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. In that frantic—

Johanna Lyle: yeah. That's not how we work. So you come to me months before we ever, um, any hammer is swung.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: And we, uh, get all that in line so that we like just remove a ton of that stress. And then I'm the one communicating with the contractor. You're not getting daily calls. I'm managing the budget. I'm problem solving when stuff comes up. Um, so that's another huge part of my service.

Sara Emmerson: Well, and I love too what you said a minute ago. There was 2 things that stood out to me. One, you said that they need somebody they trust, and I think that's something that, uh, you had said a little bit ago when you were talking about that woman. You're like, I don't know why she hired me. She saw me in overalls doing that stuff. Your Instagram built trust.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah. Right.

Sara Emmerson: Her watching you. I think a lot of times people are like, what do I use social media for? So many people are like, I just put my services up there and I tell 'em the prices and I put a graphic on. That's not what the social media is for. The social media is for you to add value. I mean, if for anyone listening that has a business, people need to hear or experience you 7 to 13 times before they will ever make a decision to hire you. And so for her, that daily rep of seeing you in your overalls and painting and working on your light fixtures and, um, all the different things that you're doing, I think you had your whole family peeling wallpaper or, or doing walls.

Johanna Lyle: Yep.

Sara Emmerson: Painting or something at one time. It was fun to see. Um, but that was building trust and, and that's, that's a really big, a big deal. The other thing you, you said that stood out was the part about completion. And I think that's what happens so often is so many people get into these design projects and they get like halfway in, like the beginning feels exciting. They're like, oh yeah, I'm talking to these contractors and so, and then they get in the middle of it and they're like, oh shoot, this is hard. Now there's problems. I don't, and now this feels like it's never ending. And so it sounds like for you, one, one of the big benefits of working with you, I know even before we started the, the redesign of my office, I, um, contracted with Joanna for all the ideas and, um, design because I trust her and think she's an amazing designer. Um, but, and I was like, this color, this color, this paper, this paper. What about this chair? Like, um, these shelves, what do we do? And she's so amazing, but. Um, in that is having the idea of that this can be a calm, exciting, beautiful, completed project. And I think that's the thing that a lot of people hear is, oh yeah, this is ongoing. It never ends. We're still waiting on this. We're still waiting on that. Uh, is your kitchen done yet? Nope. I, I just had this conversation with a friend last week. Nope. We're still waiting on fixtures.

Like, for having someone like you, they don't have to have that pressure. They're able to continue on with their lives without that. Constant noise or constant extra stress. Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: And I mean, construction delays still happen, but the benefit is that you don't have to be the one saying, hey, hurry up. Or like, I ordered that thing late and that's why we're waiting on it. Or you just, you don't have to be managing it all. And And, uh, I think that's a huge benefit to people.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely. Absolutely. And they get to spend time, uh, speaking with you and creating with you, which is a huge bonus cuz you're such a, an amazingly fun creative person to be around. Um, I could talk to you all day. Uh, tell me a little bit about what it's like being a wife and mom with a business. You're, and, and brag on your little, uh, on your little boy or your, both of your boys.

Johanna Lyle: Yes, I had, um, George back in October, so he's 9 months old. And I think it was hard. I wanted to take a little time off, and also these projects that I do take so long. And so when I found out I was pregnant, it kind of had to start scaling down on what I said yes to immediately because projects can take over a year.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: And so I felt like I did have to kind of scale back a bit and then to be able to take a maternity leave. And I was grateful that I had saved up for my maternity leave, but no one's paying it.

Sara Emmerson: Well, someone is. It's you. You're paying it.

Johanna Lyle: Right. And then I had to sort of like— I knew that, okay, so I want to come back to work in January, and it's not like I'm just going to open the doors and there's going to be work again. So I think that just navigating this last cycle has been a little challenging. I just sort of feel like I'm back fully in the swing of things now.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Johanna Lyle: But at the same time, I'm just so grateful that I have the flexibility. I'm glad that I built this life for myself so that I can— George had his first sickness A few weeks ago. And, you know, I, we had a summer nanny and, and so she stayed home and I just was like able to, I, you know, I woke up and I was like, I have meetings today. And then I was like, I can move that. Like I can move these meetings actually. And I can just hold my son all day who's sick. And yeah, it's like a beautiful thing. And that's like why we do this, right?

Sara Emmerson: Like we're our own. Yes. For that freedom. Absolutely.

Johanna Lyle: Our own business so that we can do that.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, exactly.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah, checking off a day that we just used of our PTO. Like, so, um, I think I'm really grateful for that. And, um, I, yeah, I just, it's, it's like, obviously, like many moms who have come before me, it's hard to balance. But I think that I love what I do, which I think it would be really hard if I didn't love what I what I spent all day away from him doing. And I have the flexibility to not be away all day. I can come home early if I want to, or right now I have Fridays off with him. And yeah, I also this summer, because I've mostly been working from home till now and we had the summer nanny, I was breastfeeding him during the day. And so I didn't have to pump, which was awesome. Yes. You know, so incredible. Like, yes, we can arrange our lives to like work for us when we—

Sara Emmerson: yes. It is that freedom and that autonomy of like, hey, we can figure this out to work for us is a huge benefit. I know for me that's been so incredibly helpful with my kids aren't babies anymore, but now that they have all their different things that they're doing and navigating travel and To, to go see family, cuz we've got a lot of family that lives outta state and things like that. To, to be able to pick up and go and, um, to have a business that, that you can, uh, that can fuel your creativity and your life, um, from a financial standpoint and that gives you the freedom to actually live too is amazing. I love that. Well, we're gonna do a couple, uh, fast round questions here, uh, as we, uh, come to a close, uh, here. But, um, I want to, Ask you too, what are some— before we get to those, uh, just quick round of questions, what are some design tips that you could tell people right now? Like, what's one or two things that you're like, okay, do this, don't do this, in your opinion?

Johanna Lyle: Um, inside mount Roman shades if you can versus outside mount. That's better. Okay. And if you do them, um, just like they're not— this is— I didn't do these shades, but hold on a sec. Pull them down a little bit farther, like, to— if you could see.

Sara Emmerson: So, like, right there. Okay.

Johanna Lyle: Change the temperature of your light bulbs to 2700 Kelvin.

Sara Emmerson: 2700 Kelvin. Everybody listen to that. 2700 Kelvin.

Johanna Lyle: Warmer lights. That's a good one. Wallpaper. Always wallpaper. Wallpaper is great. And if you're looking for a way to, like, pick a cohesive color scheme and palette for your home, Find like a wallpaper or a rug or something that you love with a lot of colors in it and pull from there. Um, as a quick tip for how to like make things feel cohesive.

Sara Emmerson: I love that. That's really helpful. Good. All right, here, here's some quick, uh, questions for you. Coffee or tea?

Johanna Lyle: Coffee.

Sara Emmerson: Ice cream or cake?

Johanna Lyle: Cake.

Sara Emmerson: Mountains or ocean? Ocean. I was going to ask you wallpaper or paint, but wallpaper. What is your favorite wallpaper that you've seen recently?

Johanna Lyle: Oh, gosh, I don't know. There's so many, Sarah. I can't answer that question.

Sara Emmerson: Okay. I Love.

Johanna Lyle: Hmm. I can't answer that question.

Sara Emmerson: Okay. Do you like a pattern or a print? Like a more of like a geometric, like, I know that sounds funny how I'm asking it, but in my mind it sounds, from a design standpoint, it doesn't make sense, but for my mind it sounds right.

Johanna Lyle: Do you like, like geometric or do you like more floral and Yeah, I think there's a place for both, but I love a like more organic floral.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, I've seen you put some things like that in homes recently and in your pictures, and it's really beautiful. Okay, how can people find you that wanna work with you?

Johanna Lyle: You can go to my website, which is joelyleandco.com, all spelled out, or you can go to my Instagram, which is joelyle.design. And, um, I'll send you to my website from there.

Sara Emmerson: Okay, great. And you do services both where you are currently and all over, correct? Mm-hmm.

Johanna Lyle: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And you help people with ideas, like they can just work with you online too. You wanna tell us a little bit about that?

Johanna Lyle: Yeah. So I, my most, my main focus is my full service projects, which is like soup to nuts, the whole, the whole shebang, um, for multiple areas in your home or your whole home. Um, but if that is cost prohibitive, I offer some like more focused ways to work together. So I'll do what we did, which was a, just like a 1-hour consultation together as a, like, like low price point, low entry. Um, if you just need some help navigating some design decisions. Um, and then I also have like a 1-day, uh, design day that you can do, which is also a flat fee. And that is great if you just have one room that you're looking to have a design for and are, um, yeah, just needing help kind of picking, picking some selections for that. And so those are, those are 2 options that I, I like to have. Like, it's honestly, I wondered about cutting them out of my, of my offering because I think like I do want to focus on those full-service projects, but I really enjoy getting to offer something to people that's at a little bit more of an approachable price point.

Sara Emmerson: It just—

Johanna Lyle: Yeah. It's good to me.

Sara Emmerson: Well, and the lovely thing about that too is if they don't live near you, they can still experience and gain from your expertise and knowledge. And you get to have little pieces of you all over the US, no matter where they, no matter where they are. Um, or actually you could do that anywhere all over the, all over the world. If you're listening outside of the US and you want a, a design from Jo, you can connect with her and you could have examples of you everywhere, Jo. I love it. Well, Johanna, thank you so much for sharing your story and reminding us that building a meaningful business requires both creativity and courage. And to everyone listening today, if today's conversation encouraged you, I want you to share this episode with someone who needs the reminder that the greatest opportunities often begin by taking one brave step, just like Jo did. Actually, she's taken many, but it takes that first brave step. And if you're ready to stop playing it safe and start building the life or business you've been dreaming about, I'd love to help you. Visit sarahemerson.com to learn more about coaching opportunities, and I'd love to set up a conversation with you. But until next time, remember, sometimes the biggest breakthroughs begin with something That Sounds Risky. Talk to you soon. Bye.