Sara Emmerson: Hello everyone, and welcome back to That Sounds Risky, the podcast for people who know they were made for more, but need the courage to take the next step. I'm your host, Sara Emmerson. I'm an executive coach, speaker, entrepreneur, wife, and mom. And for over 20 years, I've been helping people take that next brave step. And I'm excited to be here this week with one of my friends, Jessica. Jessica is Someone who is changing the way that we think about resilience. She, Jessica Marron, is a speaker, she's a writer, and a resilience educator whose message is both refreshing and practical. Resilience isn't just about having the right mindset, it's rooted in biology, and I cannot wait for you to hear all about that from Jessica. So thank you, Jessica, for being here with us today.

Jessica Maren: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about yourself. And one of the things that's interesting about you and I, some of the people I inter— um, interview are closer friends to me than others, and I'm honored to call you a friend. So tell us a little bit more about you and let everyone know how we met. Yeah.

Jessica Maren: So, um, thank you again for being here, and I'm so excited that you're doing this and started your podcast, and I been listening to all the episodes and they've been fantastic. So I'm excited to be a part of it. Uh, so the way that we met was literally walking around Chicago. I was walking at the time, I had a Bernese Mountain Dog who sadly passed away a few years ago, but, um, and we would just walk around the neighborhood. I believe it was around COVID, like late COVID, otherwise known as early 2021-ish or so.

Sara Emmerson: Everyone's craving for a human connection.

Jessica Maren: Yes, exactly. Exactly. And you were just walking around. I think you were near your place of work at the time, and we just started chatting. It's one of those things where the universe or, you know, brings people together when they need it most. And we've really just stayed connected ever since in a variety of capacities. And we've been able to follow and support each other's journeys too, which has been absolutely wonderful. And I'll share with the listeners too that Sarah even officiated my wedding. I got married in October. And Sarah was my officiant. So we very much trust and support and are so grateful to have Sarah as a very significant part of our journey in that way too.

Sara Emmerson: It was such a beautiful wedding. And being a part of your journey has been a highlight for mine. And I remember, I still remember that day. Selfishly, I saw Lux and I saw your beautiful Bernese Mountain Dog. And I thought to myself, I'm getting a Bernedoodle, and I need to talk to this woman about how incredible her dog is, and I need some information.

Jessica Maren: I'd never had a dog before, so I was like, hey, you have a Bernese Mountain Dog. Hey, can I talk to you?

Sara Emmerson: And it did, it blossomed a friendship. And so I wanna encourage anyone that's listening out there, talk to strangers because it changes lives.

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: I would never have guessed in that moment by complimenting your dog and starting a friendship that years later I would be downtown officiating your wedding. And—

Jessica Maren: Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: What an incredible moment that was. And you look gorgeous. I saw pictures online yesterday that you were posting from the wedding.

Jessica Maren: Oh, yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And I was like, oh, man, that, those moments were so special to me to get to be a part of. So—

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Thank you for trusting me. It was wonderful.

Jessica Maren: Yeah. And I will say too, a very Midwestern trait. So I was born and raised in the Midwest, but I have not lived in the Midwest for many, many years. But Midwestern people talk to strangers and it's lovely. It's so nice. And now I hang out with a lot of New York people and DC people and people that are international. And I think my, my lovely, wonderful husband is very Midwestern. It takes 20 minutes to leave any party. I just walk out. I'm like, bye. Um, but he will take forever. Um, but even amongst my friends, I'm considered the Midwestern person. So when they wanna know somebody else's story, they're like, Hey, hey, hey, Jessica, go, go figure out why they're here. Go talk to them. Yeah, I love that. I love that.

Sara Emmerson: Well, we always had that in common and, um, our love for people. And, um, I, I'm so grateful to God that he crossed our paths that day and that we get to continue cheering each other on. Another fun thing is I got to, um, for those of you that are listening, Jessica is a motivational speaker. And, um, last year I got to a women's event And I had signed up for the women's event and I think I'd seen online that, that Jessica was speaking at one. But that morning I hadn't totally put everything together. I was rushing around getting to this women's event and I show up and she's the keynote speaker and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so amazing. So I got to be in the front row cheering her on and basking in all of her knowledge. So that was really fun too.

Jessica Maren: And that one specific event has been so interesting. It was I probably booked it about 6 months prior, and, uh, which depending on the scale of the conference, it's pretty typical. Um, but some of them are a year and a half out. It's, it's wild. But yeah, that specific one. Then I went to a wedding in November and one of the guests came up to me and were like, I, I was at that event that you spoke. So that specific event. And then somebody that listened to me at that event, I was just keynote at another conference from an attendee that was at that event, uh, also in Naperville. So it's, it's That certain events, and that was pretty local too, right? I mean, local events.

Sara Emmerson: It was.

Jessica Maren: Go to your local chamber.

Sara Emmerson: It's like 30 minutes for me.

Jessica Maren: Go to, you know, support these various organizations. Anything you see women in business, do it. They're always fabulous. So, yeah.

Sara Emmerson: It really was. So, well, I'm proud of you and excited for everyone to hear about your journey. So we're going to jump in. Are you ready?

Jessica Maren: Yeah, let's do it.

Sara Emmerson: Okay. So you say something that immediately grabs people's attention often, and that is resilience isn't mindset, it's biology. Tell us what you mean by that.

Jessica Maren: Yeah. So for those listening, I have a master's in teaching and biological sciences. So what that means is basically I teach about biology. That's what I've been trained to do, and that's what I love to do. And so within that, the way that I think about biology within the brain is basically the construction of it. are those patterns over time aligning us to follow whatever, whatever pattern we, we set our, our, our own path on? For example, when I talk about resilience, we have to train our brains and our biology in order to be more resilient people. So a lot of times, uh, just to kind of break it down a little bit further, A lot of times, a lot of people are just living in this state of steady stress, right? Where we're constantly being inundated with screen time, with different information, with emails popping up and text messages and all of these things. Or life comes at us and we're filling too many roles and filling up our cup, cups overflow with too many responsibilities. So what happens is that we're constantly in this state of steady stress, which means that we are constantly looking for what is the next fire I need to put out.

Sara Emmerson: Yes.

Jessica Maren: Our, over time, our biology, our brains are trained to look for stress, which is interesting because that is kind of our biological default in a lot of ways, right? Our brains are trained to look for what is going to keep us safe. So what is the potential next threat to come our way? And how can we put out that fire before it becomes a bigger threat in our life? So we are default that level of, of looking for the steady state, and then we're training it with more stress coming in saying, okay, how can we constantly be looking for the next stressor and making sure that it doesn't become a threat? So then over time, that pattern just consistently reinforces itself and that becomes a bigger and bigger pathway in our brains.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: Resilience, on the other hand, is really connected to hope and really being able to Pull our minds and our attention out of that steady, steady stress response so that we can be present and grounded as well as forward-looking. We need to intentionally change that pattern because the world does not, uh, immediately give us that opportunity or give us that space. So we need to really be intentional about changing our pattern so that Our brains start to look for what is going well, or what gives me hope for the future, or what is really bringing me into a safe, grounded space right at this present moment. We need to intentionally reinforce those patterns so that we can biologically become more resilient and more hopeful and more grateful and more joyful. So those are very intentional patterns that we have to put in our brain, thanks to the gift of biology. And it's all a biological response.

Sara Emmerson: I love the science behind this because this is what I get to talk to people about literally daily, right? Is building that resilience, um, because that resiliency isn't something that comes natural. We are, our brain was created for survival. Um, and one of the things I get to talk to people too about is even in, in, especially in good times, right? Our brain, sometimes people think, well, why am I self-sabotaging? It's because, correct, our, our brain, if we don't actually have a problem going on to solve, it will look for one.

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And it will find one even in the good times. And so if you're somebody that's like, I keep doing this, things are going well and I keep finding something that's wrong. You're not crazy. It really is something that is happening and you really are doing that, but it can be shifted. And that resiliency, building that through listening to people like Jessica or through coaching or through continuing your education in, in that can make a difference.

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: So that's really exciting. Was there a defining moment in your own life when you realized resilience had to be— resiliency had to become more than just positive thinking? Like, it had to, it had to be more than just thinking this is gonna go well.

Jessica Maren: Yeah. So there were lots of moments, but a lot of it was, um, life happens to you fast sometimes, and sometimes you have no choice. But over time, I, I very much have a scientific brain in that I like to use myself as a Test subject.

Sara Emmerson: Exactly.

Jessica Maren: So what kind of was going on in my life at, at a certain point, I have always been very interested in the patterns of people. So my actual training, my original bachelor's was actually in marketing and specifically in marketing research. So I always looked at buyer patterns. That was really what I was doing. I was focusing on marketing, but what is this buyer showing me that they like, right? So it's always a buyer pattern. From there, though, I started realizing when I was going through very dark spaces. So, for example, I went through a divorce. I just knew I was I was getting this this feeling, this draw of this is not where I'm supposed to be in my career at a certain point. I was feeling like I had to move locations, but I didn't really know where. So it was just kind of a a space of constant searching. And that is actually when my master's kind of came into view. It just kind of popped up. So I still have the marketing firm and actually that is still operating, but it's very much referral-based and it's very, we're full clients almost all the time, if not all the time. And this master's was on top of that. And I was like, I'm not sure I can handle this.

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Maren: But so many signs and my gut instinct and everything about my intuition was pulling me there. And when my gut instinct had been so wrong before that it pulled me into that place of, you know, all of this change and really loss of control and all that kind of thing, I was like, you know, what else are you gonna do? Just say yes. Give it a go. What's the worst that's gonna happen? Right? Mm-hmm. And just saying yes, even when the opportunity wasn't convenient or didn't make sense, uh, it really started me on this path of, okay, I already understand wanting to look at human behavior and wanting to see patterns, but that we're mammals as well. And that at the end of the day, that's, that's what we are. We think we're, we're above it, but we are mammalian. We have mammalian instincts. We are.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: Exactly the same, just with some different nuances, right? We each have different stories, et cetera, but, but we are mammals at the base of it all.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: And so that training has really just kind of led me to this point that has been fascinating, where it is literally teaching primarily adults about how our, how, how we have so much control over our biology as long as we take the space to actually work with it and, and be intentional about it. Um, it's just like a workout though. It doesn't happen in a day. So, so it's good.

Sara Emmerson: No, it doesn't. And it, it's interesting how you, you talk about that gut instinct sometimes can be right and sometimes can be wrong. Life is 50/50, right? I talk to clients about this all day long. It's 50/50. It's 50% great and 50% hard. And during the hard, we still can have the good times too. Like we can actually shift that 50% to be more. when we learn these skills of resiliency. And one of the things that I see, I don't know what you, what you're seeing when you're talking with people, especially different ages, is, um, and my husband and I were talking about this, uh, just the other day, um, our younger generations are not as resilient and they don't have the grit that they did 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago. And that's something that I'm— really passionate about, um, for my kids, for their friends, for, for people. Um, are you seeing that in this day and age, the need to speak about this because it's not just naturally there the way it, it was in the past?

Jessica Maren: Well, so what's really interesting is, so my main keynote that I do for adults is called Bouncing Forward, right? So it's how to build that resilience so that you can learn from your past and really be intentional about moving forward in a growth state. Um, so that is what I do for that. But actually the main one that I do when it comes to teens or kids or, you know, Gen Z or, or anything that's younger than millennials, basically.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: It's actually based primarily around social media, actually. So in that, I call it Be the Light because it's all about building a social media presence and being comfortable in a space of social media. But what's been interesting is the science behind social media. So tech addiction is real. That is an actual thing. Social media addiction is not necessarily— it has not been classified quite yet, but it is part of tech addiction for arguably for a lot of people. So what happens is that we have all of this coming in into us immediately. So we get that dopamine addiction. We are seeing the novelty. We're seeing it all in this new way, but we don't have the have to have the patience to get there. So the lack of grit makes a lot of sense that you are seeing, especially cuz I'm not around kids or, you know, the, uh, Gen Z, et cetera, at as often as many parents. I'm not a parent myself, but just scientifically what we're seeing is that they don't have to have the patience to get the dopamine, to get the novelty, et cetera.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: So their brains just reinforce the pattern of it needs to happen now. How do I get it now? How do I get that dopamine now? How do I get that novelty now?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Which explains why we have impatient people.

Jessica Maren: Oh yeah.

Sara Emmerson: We have some of them that are so entitled. I deserve to have this now. I deserve to have it quickly.

Jessica Maren: Yeah. Well, and that comes at you. You don't even have to go get it. Right.

Sara Emmerson: Right.

Jessica Maren: It's something that comes at you.

Sara Emmerson: That's so interesting too, because that's a lot of what I'm working with when, uh, new entrepreneurs come to me. I work with a lot of, um, new entrepreneurs and business owners. They're like, well, How do I get people? How do I get clients to come to me? And I'm like, well, that will happen eventually, but you're going to have to go do the work. And so teaching them, no, it's actually you, you have to go. It's not just putting up a post online. Hey, I'm open and everyone's going to come to you. That's not how that works. So that whole idea of you going out, things don't just happen to you, right?

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: That's really interesting.

Jessica Maren: So, and getting comfortable. I mean, there's so many other things. I think every generation and every person probably. Uh, struggles with hearing nos, right? So how, how do you change that to, I, I have a friend who is a fellow entrepreneur and had to change their mindset to try to collect nos. So how can I get as many nos as possible? Because you need to just get comfortable with like, okay, you're going to hear it. Who cares? Like what, at the end of the day, what's the worst that's going to happen?

Sara Emmerson: Well, I always like to say, if you're hearing no, you're in the exact same place that you are now.

Jessica Maren: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Sara Emmerson: So you already had a no by not asking. So if it truly is a numbers game, which it is, right?

Jessica Maren: Absolutely. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: The no, and I always like to ask them to say, like, make it to your benefit. So ask them, do you know somebody who would be interested in this? Right. Because it might be a no for them, but they might know 3 other people that it's a yes for. So turning those nos into yeses for yourself is something that we learn in coaching too. So.

Jessica Maren: Yeah, I love that. Well, and it's so interesting too, just to kind of tap on the social media, like piece, because you do have so many entrepreneurs, I'm sure that are listening right now.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely.

Jessica Maren: One of the things that I will say, the brass tacks of it is don't do something that you hate to do. So if you hate social media, find a way to either outsource it or find a platform that you do like, because maybe that's where your customer is and focus your attention there. You don't need to be on every form of social media. I'm just going to give the answer right now. Don't be on everything unless you want to be on everything, right? You don't need to be on TikTok, Facebook, X, you know, all of the things, Instagram, et cetera, on BeReal, on Snapchat. You don't need to be on all of them. Pick one that you like most and just start there and then just get started and then see where it leads and it may be nowhere, but just don't, don't do them all. Don't do them all unless you absolutely want to and absolutely love it. Don't take pressure from anyone. And you feel like it's good for your mental health. Uh, but if it's not, then don't do it. I, for example, had to pull myself off of some forms of social media. So yeah, sometimes you just— I think we are told that we have to be on everything because it makes sense, etc. And it just doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't make sense for you. I'm going to give you the answer.

Sara Emmerson: Well, I love that. Thank you. Thank you for that free advice to everybody. Don't feel like you have to be on everything.

Jessica Maren: You don't.

Sara Emmerson: And do what you love. Because here's the thing. All of us that have tried to do the dancing videos and don't like them, right? We can tell that we don't like them when we're doing it. I did a little lip sync thing. I don't even know.

Jessica Maren: It's embarrassing to even say I did it, but I did a couple months ago. I'm sure it was cute. No, no one did it.

Sara Emmerson: Well, my daughter, I don't know, because I came home and my daughter's like, Mom, take the lip sync thing down. And I was like, what? She's like, you got to take it down. And I'm like, really? I thought it was fun. And she's like, no, it's not. And I was like, okay, so if you actually want some feedback, you can get a 15-year-old in your life.

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And that helps. That helps keep it real.

Jessica Maren: So funny.

Sara Emmerson: I know it was. So for you, one of the things that I admire so much about you, there's a ton of things I admire, but grit started for you early on, right? So we just talked about learning grit through so many different things. You were a pretty high-level athlete. Is that something that you Uh, would be willing to share with us about and how that has helped inform the biology and, uh, desire to learn about your brain and your body and all of that?

Jessica Maren: Yeah, so I was a high-level athlete through high school, absolutely very competitive, and then in even into college. But in college, it was— I was not as competitive. It was more at that point I just needed to loosen the chains and just have fun. So it was more a performance athlete at that point. Um, but absolutely it was training that I think was incredibly helpful for me even to this day. You know, the discipline, the really being comfortable moving through doubt or moving through, um, the, the quote unquote losses, you know, moving through a win, what that actually looks like.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: And actually supporting other people. Actually, just the other day I was thinking about I remember being in a competition where—

Sara Emmerson: Real quick, can you tell people what you did?

Jessica Maren: Oh, yes. Yeah. So I did figure skating, but actually I did a lot of synchronized ice skating too, which is going to be in the next Olympics. Everyone should watch. Thank you very much. But it is. Yeah. So a lot of ice skating and then dance as well. So dance is what I ended up doing all through college. But my really competitive sports were actually figure skating and synchronized ice skating, actually. So, but I was international, part of Team USA. So it was very intense upbringing in a way that I loved. My parents never forced me to do it, but it was like I was skipping gym class before school, after school, lunch, study hall, et cetera, starting even in elementary school when I was very young. It's one of those sports where you start young and if you're going to be competitive, you dive in. I know that you're very familiar with that.

Sara Emmerson: We are very familiar. Our family is definitely a high sports, high High risk, high reward, and high learnings.

Jessica Maren: Yes, absolutely.

Sara Emmerson: Type of family.

Jessica Maren: And I come from a family of athletes too. I mean, right now, for example, I have 2 nephews that are playing football in college. So like, we, that is how we, we operate. I, you know, we, we love sports, we love the competition of it, but we're not super competitive. We're really more competitive with ourselves more than, you know, we want to do the best we can. But it's a very different mentality when you have that kind of that athletic upbringing. But I will also say, I think you can also have that even in, you know, student government or theater or et cetera, or band or whatever. It's kind of the same mentality that you just, as long as that discipline can get you there, can get you there. Constant improvement, always wanting to really work hard to, with the, the small nuances to really make the big picture happen. It's a lot of that. But in the years since, actually, a lot of my work has been with athletes. So I did a lot of work.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: Especially early on. With very competitive athletes, a lot of Olympians, a lot of Winter Olympians primarily. So—

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, you just were, you just got to be at the— if you follow Jessica online, you'll get to go back on her stories and see she just covered a lot of the Olympics. Yeah. Which was really exciting to follow along. So tell us about that.

Jessica Maren: Yeah, thank you.

Sara Emmerson: What you're working with.

Jessica Maren: We're Olympic fans, which is fun. So the last of my athletes just finally retired that I've been working with. But yeah, I mean, I had a lot of skiers, snowboarders primarily that I worked with. And I lived in Breckenridge for a while as well. So a couple in the Paralympic space as well. But yeah, so we've been going. So my husband and I went to Milan where I don't actually work with any summer athletes, but they are— we're Olympic fans. If anyone wants to go to the Olympics, follow me along and I'm happy to give you lots of tips. I'm very excited about LA 28, but it has— it's a very interesting mindset when you're an athlete, right? Because you have to be constantly pursuing, but also really keep yourself at a neutral state on a very high-level stage. So you have to keep your nervous system regulated. You have to be able to move through, you know, hearing all of the cheers or all of the boos, whatever it is. And really move through and not, not get your heart racing. So for example, it's interesting for keynotes, I'm almost always selected as an opening keynote or as a morning keynote because one of the main things, even for my own speaking that I have to do, is nervous system regulation. I, I'm not one of those speakers that like comes out, are you ready? Like that, that's just not my mentality. I'm obsessed with those speakers. They're fabulous. That's great. If anyone's an event planner listening, that is fabulous, especially for a post-lunch speaker. But I am much almost always morning opening. Let's ground, let's learn, let's get our brains ready to operate.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: Because that's just how I work best. But a lot of that came from my, my athlete background. How do I really ground myself and get into the moment and, and share almost as if it's another day and I'm talking to a friend with a little more professional dressing.

Sara Emmerson: That's so helpful and so useful. And you're right, we have to get the different stages you're on, whether it's a rink or a mountain or a stage, regulating yourself to go, hey, this is another day and I'm going to go out and do what I'm skilled to do or what I was— what I practiced for.

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And not allow our highs to get too high or our lows to get too low. Yeah. You talk about— oh, go ahead.

Jessica Maren: Oh no, I was just gonna say the, one of the things that I always like to mention too, I even had some posts on Instagram where I talk about the World Cup. For example, the World Cup just ended when we were recording this. And we, I, I think we put athletes or people on big stages on a different level than ourselves quite often. Right. And you and I sitting in front of computers a lot and And we didn't, but really the same science can translate regardless. We all have big conversations that we really have to amp ourselves up for. We all have high-pressure situations that we're going to go through or have gone through or are currently in. We all have big stages that just may look different than, you know, an Olympic slopestyle competition.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Well, because often, I mean, with the clients that I'm working with too, like, It could be a huge acquisition of a company. It also could be a huge conversation with their spouse or—

Jessica Maren: Absolutely.

Sara Emmerson: With their brother. I was working with somebody the other day, and one of the biggest things— he's very, very successful, but one of the biggest things that he needed to work on was communication with his brother. And so that stage can look different. It doesn't have to always be in the boardroom, or it doesn't always have to be on a literal stage, but it is in real life. Sometimes it's as a mom, what is that conversation gonna be with my kid?

Jessica Maren: Right.

Sara Emmerson: And sometimes it's with a friend. So if you're listening today and you're like, okay, I'm not an Olympic athlete, you might not be, but the conversations that you're having, the choices that you're making, the risks that you're taking today are just as important. And you can regulate in, just the same way too. That's exciting.

Jessica Maren: Absolutely.

Sara Emmerson: You talk often, um, about bouncing forward through failure. What's the difference between bouncing back and bouncing forward?

Jessica Maren: So the main difference that I like to share is that bouncing forward is either learning from your experience, growing from your experience, coming through it with some form of adaptation and change rather than going back to it the the regular pattern that you were previously in. Our nervous systems specifically, but our brains and our biology really looks for comfort in patterns like we talked about earlier. And so what often happens is bouncing back, but we bounce back and repeat the same cycle over and over.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: So bouncing forward is moving out of that cycle. Um, and it, it varies pretty dramatically, uh, by what kind of situation we're in, right? If it's not hitting a sales target, that's gonna be very different than going through a period of grief, et cetera. But how do we move through it in a way that looks like growth to us in, in whatever way possible, whether it's a new learning experience, whether it's, um, a change in our own patterns, whether it's really learning something new and meeting life with gratitude, right? It could look very different regardless of, of, of the nuances of the situation, but we can always move forward. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: What's a failure maybe in your own life or a time where you decided you needed to bounce forward that you're genuinely grateful for today?

Jessica Maren: Oh, there's tons. Yeah. But I also have gotten in this pattern because I do train this skill. I'm very much in the pattern of what I've always struggled with is being a beginner. So I put myself in situations that make me a beginner regularly, and I fail constantly so that my com— my system becomes comfortable with failure and not seeing it as a threat. So there's some amazing— Yeah. So there's some examples.

Sara Emmerson: What are things that you're, that you're being a beginner at?

Jessica Maren: Oh, it's so funny. I'm a beginner at a lot of things. Like, I'll randomly— okay, so I'm in these dance classes, for example. I love dancing. I danced through college. It's one of my favorite things to do. I am by far the oldest person in this one dance class I go to, by the way. And I'm not that old, okay? No, I was gonna say, that's hard to believe. I'm not. I'm turning 40 in a few months, but I'm not there yet. And, but nonetheless, it's on a college campus. And I try hip-hop, y'all. If you know hip-hop, you know in hip-hop you got to— but like, I try my little heart out and it's so much fun, but I don't care.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: I just, I don't care. Whatever. No one's actually looking at themselves. If anyone's taking a dance class or if anyone wants to take a dance class and you— there's always a mirror in front of you. No one's looking at anyone else besides themselves. I don't know why. No one cares. You're just looking at you. If anyone's paying attention to me, I don't even pay attention. But that— I tried painting pottery the other day. Really bad. For my birthday every year, Really bad. I call up my friends, uh, or like my, my close group of girlfriends here, and I have a girls' day and I make them do a craft with me. So this year we did glass cutting and candle making, and I poured way too much scent in there. I literally cannot light it indoors because my air filter goes Oh my gosh.

Sara Emmerson: 'Cause you have so much scent.

Jessica Maren: That's so funny. Stuff like that. But like, that is the, like the smaller and more consistent, you can just train your brain to become those. But there's so many I'm grateful for. The big ones that really hit home and where it became like triggering patterns early on that I've had to work through. There's a lot of those specific failures. I would say the main one that really just is crossing my mind right now. Is I loved my first job. It was fabulous. And then I moved into a role under, uh, a wonderful boss, but we did not communicate well. And I think I failed at communicating what I needed out of that relationship. I ended up leaving and moving. But for me, that failure to communicate actually was a big learning experience for me. And being able to handle conflict well. So, that, I think, is the first one that crosses my mind, but it did lead me on this path that I'm on now, right? I never would've— at that point, I moved to Colorado after that. After that, I started, you know, getting my master's. So, it really led me on a path that I'm incredibly grateful for, but the failure was not being comfortable communicating through conflict.

Sara Emmerson: So that is, how do we stop believing that failure means we're not good enough? Yeah.

Jessica Maren: Yeah. Good question. Um, that's, that's a great question. It's, I think for me, I mean, I, I'm very scientific and pragmatic about it, so I would say practicing it because then I, I have no, when I fail at painting pottery or at dancing or hip hop, I think it has nothing to do with my self-worth. At this point, but I think when you first start, say you want to go into knitting. Okay. So I started knitting now. I only knit in a straight line. I don't know how to knit a sweater. Not a clue. I made—

Sara Emmerson: Another one of those risks that you're taking.

Jessica Maren: I love it. I love it. It's just a random thing. I love it. But when people see the failure or see a loss or see like, like a loss in an athletic game or see the nos that we talked about as something that is their personal identity, oftentimes they're out of practice of getting them.

Sara Emmerson: Right.

Jessica Maren: So it all of a sudden becomes a bigger and bigger hit. But what happens at first is you have to take it in and be intentional of regulating your nervous system, telling it it's safe, that that's not a threat, that is a lion coming towards you. You're okay. You are grounded. And once your nervous system doesn't see that failure as part of a, part of a threat-building system, yeah, you can really remove it from being part of your identity. So over time though.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah. Over time. What tool in that moment, that threat's coming at you, you see it as the lion, um, that panic mode. When I think of that panic, I, I always think, I always like to ask my clients, where do you feel that in your body? When I think of that panic, I, I feel it in my throat. I feel it in my chest. Right. Uh, what tools do you use, um, or do you encourage others to use in that moment?

Jessica Maren: Yeah, I love that. I love that because everyone is so different, right?

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: What works for me may not work for somebody else.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely.

Jessica Maren: Yeah. So for me, I love journaling. I'm obsessed with journaling. I restarted actually when I was going through that dark period, just because I was writing like letters that I would never send kind of thing. And it just kind of, at this point, I write them almost as prayers. Oddly, I realized probably about a month ago, it's the only place I write in cursive. I don't know why that is. I think that's a fun little twist though. Everywhere else I write print.

Sara Emmerson: Me too. Love that.

Jessica Maren: Um, but for me, the actual act of writing just kind of gets it out of my psyche and gets it out of my subconscious. I also do, um, this one app. Well, it's on Apple. podcasts right now. I'll recommend it. I'm not at all involved. This is— or this is not sponsored in any way. It's this app called Neuropraxis, N-E-U-R-O-P-R-A-X-I-S. So it's on Apple Podcasts. Um, several of them are free, but it's a nervous system regulation.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: And so the, one of the co-creators, Lisa Wimberger, has this whole practice called Neurosculpting that is literally scientifically backed. Taps into your brain, rewires your brain. So I've started doing that almost every day to really help regulate my nervous system on a more consistent basis. It's only about 5 to 15 minutes depending on what you have. So that's one thing I do.

Sara Emmerson: What a great resource.

Jessica Maren: But a lot of it is just intention and seeing. So for example, you were talking about how that you feel it in your throat. I feel mine in my gut, which is really interesting because there's a lot of genes Uh, a lot of, a lot of different scientific things that are both in your brain and in your gut.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: So that how co-linked they are makes a lot of sense. But I, you know, what I might need might be trying to release that through breathwork, whereas maybe you just need a sip of water too, or, you know, I say just, but, you know, learning what really helps you as a person. So that when that's— when you start to see that pattern taking hold, you're able to really ground in whatever way makes sense for you.

Sara Emmerson: Um, with that, we— you, you mentioned this a little bit before. You do, obviously, with your marketing and your biology, you, you combine those, um, loves in so many different ways. But, um, you often talk about protecting our mental health in today's society. You mentioned how you do that a little bit. But how has social media changed the way that we define success?

Jessica Maren: Oh my gosh, good question. It's a good one. I would— it's interesting. I think that there's 2 different definitions of success that are often the case. One is actual success and one is more surface-level success.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: So the surface-level success, I think, has been redefined and is often confused for being actual success. So actual success may look like, at the end of the day, it is driving the change that you are wishing to drive in the world, right? Whether that is Monetary or, uh, changing hearts and minds, change, you know, whatever that may be, or, you know, raising healthy kids, whatever that actually is. Whereas the surface level success that is confused for that quite often is number of followers, number of likes, percentage viewing, and that kind of thing. I, for example, even my— I'll just speak from my own experience. I had to take myself completely off of social media for 6 to 8 months, maybe 9 months or something like that, because I was looking at the follower count and confusing it for actually receiving the results that I want out of clients and speaking events, et cetera. And that those are 2 different things. One looks like keeping up with the Joneses and trying to get as many followers as possible, but one is actually the actual change that I am hoping to see, which is changing hearts and minds and, and the values in people that are listening to me.

Sara Emmerson: Um, what's so interesting about that, uh, Jess, is that the output isn't different, right? You're, you're still posting.

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: But it's that internal expectation.

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And that internal shift that happens, right? So you're still gonna Once you come back on, you're still posting, but your focus is now shifted. And so any of you that are listening, you're like, okay, well, I, I have to post either way. Absolutely you do. Or you don't have to, you get to if you want. But it's what are you, what are you focusing on? That's actually something you, you know about this too. Scientific is that spotlight theory, right? What we focus, what we focus on flourishes. And so if all you're focusing on is the followers, then what is flourishing in that is your concern about them, your desire for them, right? It gets bigger and bigger. But if your focus is on the value that you're adding, the conversations that you're having, the important relationships that you're building, you might, or the conversations that you're starting, that output might be the same, but that internal shift makes the difference.

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Is that what I hear you say?

Jessica Maren: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And so you have to set up your life in a way that reinforces what you are looking for too. So if you are constantly online, so maybe set a timer on how long you can be on social media just to get the warning, right? It's not going to prevent you. Or, uh, I, I work with one entrepreneur that completely removes it from all of her devices every weekend. Technically you can still get online, right? You're not, you're not—

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, but it's that boundary or barrier that you're setting up just to help keep you in check. Yeah, that's really helpful.

Jessica Maren: Yeah, absolutely. And then I've worked with a lot of people too that have to separate themselves from their profile in a, in a way that makes sense for them. So for example, say you have a brick and mortar boutique, maybe pull yourself, yes, faces, quote unquote sell better, but there are so many great profiles that actually show the clothes in boutiques.

Sara Emmerson: Yes.

Jessica Maren: The fabrics or things like that. You, you can redefine what your social media looks like so it works well for your mental health. It works well for the world and it works well for the local audience that you're hoping to seek in that case. At the end of the day, my main goal for any of my clients, I Very rarely is there a client that I want millions of followers for. I don't ever care about having millions of followers. What I want is the people that actually care about my profile that I'm operating on to be coming there. And that is it. I just want that niche. I want that 20,000 followers. I want that whomever it would be. You don't, you don't, you rarely need millions of followers. Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: You know, that can be problematic at times, right? That's actually like what people actually— I mean, that's a whole nother talk, but what people are actually aiming for can actually be the thing that is their downfall or the problem. Yes. So what's one thing you wish every creator, entrepreneur, or leader actually understood about protecting their mental health when it comes to social media?

Jessica Maren: Um, oh gosh, there's so many, right? I would say the main, the main thing perhaps that there's with social media, I wanna regroup on social media, that a lot of it is fake.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: A lot of it is not real. Um, especially where, don't compare yourself to somebody's, you know, Somebody might be in the middle of their path when you're in the early path, and don't confuse where you are in your journey to where they are in their journey. There's so many people selling, come to this lesson, watch this coach, you know, get a million followers in 3 days, et cetera. And some of them are great, some of them are not, but don't listen to every single coaching call out there, right? I know a lot of people that all of a sudden think they need to create an online course and then all of a sudden think they need to create the, you know, the, you know, they need to post every day, 5 times a day because that's what one person's saying. And then also need to do whatever. It's like, pick a few coaches that really gravitate towards you. There's nothing wrong with listening to mentors or to having mentors or having coaches. But don't listen to every single one out there. Pick who you trust, but also don't compare yourself to them. They are in a very different place in their journey all the time. And also what you're seeing is not, you know, that surface level success may not be the same as what your actual definition of success is at the end of the day either. It's probably not going to be, I want to be a creator with a million followers because then Instagram is going to pay me to post. They don't actually pay that much to post anyways. So like, don't get too excited. So yeah, it's—

Sara Emmerson: Don't keep chasing the golden egg that isn't— is not existing.

Jessica Maren: Right, exactly.

Sara Emmerson: One of the things I like to talk about, uh, with different people and with clients too is that comparison is— our mind, everyone says, well, comparison is the thief of joy. That's 100% true. But our mind, just like you talked about, our mind goes to that fight or flight mode. It's just natural how we do it. It's instinctual. Your mind is going to compare. That's how it happens. But what you can do in that moment is not allow that comparison to be critical. I always look at that like, how can I turn this comparison into connection?

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Like, yeah, this person might be better than I am. Instead of me making that, that I'm wrong, how can I seek out what they're actually better at and ask for help?

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: How can I turn this comparison into a connection moment or into a learning moment instead of a I'm wrong or they're wrong moment, right?

Jessica Maren: Right, right.

Sara Emmerson: That comparison doesn't have to turn to critique or to negativity. We can actually use that to benefit us or to, like you've talked about, bouncing forward. We can use that to bounce forward instead of push ourselves down, or that need to push other people down. I'll tell you, the higher I get in working with other successful entrepreneurs or successful business people, the more humble and available at the top people really are. Like, if they truly are successful—

Jessica Maren: Yes.

Sara Emmerson: In life and in business, because success again isn't just money. If they truly are successful in life and business, their desire to help you their desire to say yes to things, their desire to basically see themselves in you. Because just remember, everyone who is successful in your eyes started at the bottom at one point, right?

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: Their desire's going to be great. They're going to say, yeah, I am available. Maybe it's not right then, maybe it has to be in a few months or they get on their schedule. But most of the time, People that are actually successful in life and business are willing to help you quit using that critique to be a negative thing and to turn it into a connection point in some way.

Jessica Maren: And collaboration too. Remember that you have value in these situations. Even if you're reaching out to like somebody that is 15 steps above you, you can bring something to the conversation, right? So collaboration is always a good way to meet with anybody that you want to meet with as a mentor as well. In terms of maybe you are a customer of them, or maybe you can bring something else to the table and they can collaborate and learn from you. You know, so you always have something that you can bring. I, I think a lot of people discount themselves and just want to like take, take, take, take, take learnings.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: But you always have something that you can bring to the table as well to really make it a conversation.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely. So every guest that comes on That Sounds Risky has taken a risk that changed everything.

Jessica Maren: Right.

Sara Emmerson: And so some of them have taken multiple risks. Um, what has been your biggest leap?

Jessica Maren: My biggest what? Sorry, can you repeat? Leap.

Sara Emmerson: Your biggest leap.

Jessica Maren: Um, yeah. So is this your final question?

Sara Emmerson: Is it done? No, I've got more.

Jessica Maren: Yeah. I was like, I remember you had that one final one and I had my—

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: My biggest leap. I think the biggest leap that I had was betting on myself. Uh, in, in terms of I am in a field that doesn't exist, right? So when I— when people ask me what I do for work, they understand marketing and they also understand motivational speaker. What they do not understand is marketing person that focuses on science and also speaks, right? I made a career out of something that does not exist. Uh, I have a few employees that work with me. They're all part-time, every single one of them, because we don't, you know, we don't work with them every single second of every single day.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: It's for a logical reason. Uh, but it is kind of cobbling together this existence in a way that does not feel cobbled together to me. But I think that is also much more common in today. today's day and age, right? Oftentimes we are creating fields and industries that are not the original 9 to 5 going into the office.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely.

Jessica Maren: And so betting on myself, trusting that I will, that there is a path that I have not seen, and just taking the next step. I think that was the biggest leap, but there's been a lot of them. But starting this and just kind of moving into this journey and, and taking the next step each time. And I'm still taking them today. So perhaps I have not even gotten there yet.

Sara Emmerson: And with that leap, you've got people here that are listening that are on the edge and they might know that they want to do that. What would you tell them?

Jessica Maren: So I am not a risk taker by nature. I don't like— I like— I, for example, I'm an investor.

Sara Emmerson: Which is so interesting because you've already told us so many things that you do. So this isn't something that comes natural to you.

Jessica Maren: I did not want to be an entrepreneur. I did not seek it. I did not mean to. Um, I, I'm an investor, but I'm the most conservative investor. Like, I, I am known for that, right? I'm known for taking very safe bets in a lot of ways. So What I would suggest is taking a leap, but taking it smart. Don't just jump in with no plan. Be smart about it, right? Do your research, talk to mentors. We've talked today about how most people, especially very successful ones, are open. Talk to somebody that's just recently taken that leap or something that's similar. See if there is a path forward. I'm not a big, personally, I would not be, I would not, I did not quit my 9 to 5 job until I knew that there was proof that this was working. At that point, I had a blog. Um, so this was back before blogging was cool. Thank you. Um, but I had a blog with millions of readers every single month. So that was, yeah, so that I knew that there was a market there. I had recently started doing some advertising. I knew that something was happening and that if I didn't step into it, but I also took a lot of missteps with that, right? So I took the bite and started an online course because that's what everyone told me to do at that point, right? I ended up selling that pretty quickly, which is great that all worked out. I hope it's flourishing wherever that may be now. You know, I ended up, I did a lot of things that other people told me to do in a variety of different ways, but I just knew that there was something there and I just didn't know where I was supposed to take it. So I took a lot of those failures and it wasn't until I knew exactly, okay, this is the next step I'm supposed to be taking, that this is right, before I was willing to quit my 9 to 5. I made sure I had that, that was kind of my plan B and I knew I could kind of step back into it. I don't do much without some form of plan B, and I've never been somebody to do that. I like what's the worst that can happen, often being something that's not life-threatening, if possible.

Sara Emmerson: If possible. I love that. I love that. Well, and I love you saying that too, because there's people that— I mean, we take risks every day, whether we notice it or not, right? There's micro-risks that we're taking every day, walking across the street, getting in our car, you talking to me today, that's a risk, right? So, Anytime we, we do anything, it's a risk. But there's people that it comes natural for, right? Taking risks for me has always been something that has been, um, for the most part, invigorating and natural and exciting.

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: But that, for, I love hearing, cuz you appear that it's exciting and natural for you, but it's not. So internally, that's something that, that resilience has created the ability for, and you've built that muscle. of saying yes to things before you had to. And I see that in you and wanna celebrate that because I think just by hearing your story, knowing you the bit that I do, um, your willingness to put yourself in those scenarios and build that resiliency has created the ability to take the risk when you had to in bigger areas because you were already willing to do it in the smaller ones. And Yeah, that's really exciting.

Jessica Maren: And I will say I waited until it was a point where I was like, this is a big enough thing. I'm going in this direction. Yeah. It is prominent and I'm thinking about it constantly and I love what I'm doing and I'm loving all of this, but it was a big enough presence in my life specifically that if I didn't do it, I felt like I was doing a disservice not only to myself, but to others, the people that were coming towards me. Right? And I, I felt like I, I ended up almost not, not, not in no way be like being pushed into it or anything. I, I loved my job and that team that I was working with in, in that 9 to 5 at that point. But it was kind of like, if I don't do this, this is a disservice to not only where I'm supposed to be.

Sara Emmerson: Mm-hmm.

Jessica Maren: So like I said, I did not seek out being an entrepreneur. That's who I gravitate most to now, but just 'cause I'm most familiar with that, that journey. In terms of professionals, but, um, it is, it was something that I definitely just needed to get to a point where I was like, okay. So, I mean, I probably had that blog, I started in 2010 and I didn't go full-time until 2016.

Sara Emmerson: Wow.

Jessica Maren: So it was a long time of building until I was like, okay, no, these people are here and that, that's what I'm supposed to be doing.

Sara Emmerson: Jessica, um, go back. Um, we just lost your microphone. Hello? Hello?

Jessica Maren: Hi, doctor.

Sara Emmerson: Hold on. Oh, now it's on.

Jessica Maren: It's on? Yeah. Okay.

Sara Emmerson: So just go back and talk about like, it was probably 2— I didn't start that until 2010. We'll just make a cut there. Is that okay? It just cut out again.

Jessica Maren: Nothing yet.

Sara Emmerson: Drop it on the floor one more time. No, I'm just kidding.

Jessica Maren: Better?

Sara Emmerson: Yep. Perfect. I can hear you again. I just switched it.

Jessica Maren: Battery must be out.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, no problem. Just go back to the 2000— it probably didn't start until 2010.

Jessica Maren: That I— oh, that I started my blog? Oh yeah. Okay. So, um, so I started my blog in 2010 and it wasn't until 2016 that I actually went full-time with the business. And it was just, I just needed to really listen to what the universe, I believe God, was telling me, which was, I need to be of service to these people. They're coming to you for a reason. What am I supposed to be doing with them? But it really took me a lot of time to really get to that space where I was like, okay, I have to, I have to dive in and I have to see where this goes. Maybe it goes nowhere. I can always get a, get a new job. Maybe it'll be different, but I need to figure out what this may, may look like.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, one of the things I work with a lot of the people that are coming to me that are starting businesses or trying to grow and scale, um, themselves as a business owner or, um, start the business, I talk to them about a business bridge because sometimes what happens is people will call and say, hey, I quit my job and I'm starting this and Is it possible to do that? Absolutely. But you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself and the business when you do that. And so I love that you say like, hey, I started this blog and then I did that for a while. I did the same thing. I started my business and I had a business bridge for a year and a half while I was working on my business until I jumped.

Jessica Maren: Yeah.

Sara Emmerson: And so for those of you that are listening that you're like, oh, I'm so frustrated that I Have to continue to do this job while I really want to be doing something else. You're not doing something that you shouldn't be doing. What you're doing is right and it's good. You just are hearing from Jessica, who has a successful business, and myself, who also does say, hey, having that business bridge is helpful, not just to the business itself, but to you personally as you grow as a business owner. And so, Jessica, what would you say to somebody that might be thinking, oh, I don't want to be doing this, but I— I feel like I have to right now.

Jessica Maren: Yeah. Well, so entrepreneurship is ugly. I think it gets like, uh, it gets this like pretty reputation and I always have to talk. I, I talk probably more people out of entrepreneurship than—

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: If you can do anything else, do anything else.

Sara Emmerson: Right?

Jessica Maren: Well, 'cause it's, it's so great to be able, there's so many great things about it, right? There's like freedom of time. It's, I don't need to talk about, I'm sure you've heard them all. Um, but, and most of your listeners probably have too, but at the very beginning of a business, you are grinding. You don't have a life. This is your life, right? Like if you have children, that is fabulous. Like you are working nights, weekends, whenever you can to get what you need out there because you are the only one, right? You are setting up the tech. You are the tech team. You're the trash person.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: You're figuring out where you— I like, I had to figure out, I was like, oh my gosh, shoot. Now I don't have a printer and I needed to print a form. Like stuff like that that you're like, I never even thought about that you're doing your own. I would always say, where's my people?

Sara Emmerson: I used to have people.

Jessica Maren: Where's my people? Exactly right. You got to figure out where to take your video calls because you don't have that coworking space. I'm like, how do I turn on a camera?

Sara Emmerson: I don't know how to do that.

Jessica Maren: I used to have production people.

Sara Emmerson: What happened?

Jessica Maren: Right. So it takes a lot of skills that you aren't ready, prepared for. No one's prepared for that, all of them. And it takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of energy. So you have to really love it, really love what you're doing and really remember your why over anything else. So if you are diving in, um, and if you're considering it, so your bridge, your business bridge, I love that concept. I love that idea. Because you need to be willing to work the nights and weekends and off hours and really remember it. And if, if that's too much for you, that's totally fine. Maybe it's a great idea that you can, you know, pass along to somebody else, or you can sell it, or, you know, or whatever it may be, right? Or there's another way that it can look like and maybe work for you on a smaller scale. Whatever it is, there's so many options. But just diving in, it, it's, it's to your point, most of the people that I know that have had success with that have been forced into that being their one thing, right? They, they, their arm is twisted and they're like, okay, it is now my one thing because, and it needs to work. My plan B is, is forced in my, my hands.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: If you're quitting that business bridge without having a proof of concept and everything, that's when I think you really feel the pressure. pressure in a way that perhaps, uh, may not serve you, right?

Sara Emmerson: No, I, I totally agree. I totally agree. And you can turn that energy— like you said, sometimes you're forced into that scenario, and it's like a burn the ships moment. Like, I've got to burn the ships, there's no other option, I'm going full force. Um, and if you're in that moment today, I want to tell you, keep going. Keep going, because it can work. But if you're sitting on the edge going, should I just, you know, burn the ship and, and try this, um, give me a call or give Jessica a call first. Right.

Jessica Maren: Well, and I will, I will also say oftentimes when people start businesses, they think that their business is gonna look very different than it ends up looking to.

Sara Emmerson: Absolutely.

Jessica Maren: Almost everyone has had to restructure, reorg, pull a different lever, et cetera. than they think, right? They think their product or service is this, but all of a sudden now you're making podcasts, right? Like, you know, exactly right. So everyone looks a little bit different because the market changes, because what your, your time and capacity changes, because what the customer is actually telling you they need is different than what you actually thought they might need, etc. So everyone has to be able to be adaptable and change. And if you're feeling the pressure and that, that like the wall's caving in, sometimes you don't have the capacity to be able to adapt and listen and ground within all of that.

Sara Emmerson: So, well, Jessica, thank you so much for being here with us today. I always love to end each podcast with a question and, and a lightning round. So we're gonna do a quickfire lightning round of questions and then a final one. Are you ready?

Jessica Maren: I don't know. I might be— lightning round stresses me out, but let's do it. We'll make it.

Sara Emmerson: We'll make it. Uh, you know what? It's just a— what's your plan B? What's your plan B? You always like to have a plan B. It'll be okay.

Jessica Maren: Oh, there you go. There you go.

Sara Emmerson: Okay. Coffee or tea?

Jessica Maren: Oh, right now coffee. Okay.

Sara Emmerson: Morning person or night person?

Jessica Maren: I am morning, but quiet morning. Okay. And then I go to bed at 10.

Sara Emmerson: At 10?

Jessica Maren: No later.

Sara Emmerson: All right. Favorite book?

Jessica Maren: Oh gosh, that's a big one. Yeah, there's a lot. I, I'm a voracious reader and I've recently transferred into fiction world. Uh, Lines of Fifth Avenue is the most recent book that I really loved.

Sara Emmerson: Okay. You wanna do one daily habit that has changed your life?

Jessica Maren: Journaling. Mm-hmm.

Sara Emmerson: One risk that you're taking right now?

Jessica Maren: A lot. Um, really throwing everything into these conferences and speaking events publicly. So I, I recently started on Instagram this past January, finally talking about the biology stuff more publicly.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah.

Jessica Maren: Uh, and it feels like a lot putting my face out there rather than making it about my clients. So that's a risk.

Sara Emmerson: One word you hope people use to describe you?

Jessica Maren: I would say kind.

Sara Emmerson: You are kind.

Jessica Maren: If that's a big—

Sara Emmerson: That's a true one. And last but definitely not least, what is one risk that you think everyone that's listening today should take sometime in their life?

Jessica Maren: I think the main risk I think everyone should take is taking the time to find out what looks like discomfort versus fear in their own life. Because they're 2 different things.

Sara Emmerson: Very different.

Jessica Maren: And I think why it's risky is because a lot of people are very scared of that, that How eye-opening that can be, because oftentimes we think fear is holding us back, but it's actually just discomfort. It just feels icky.

Sara Emmerson: Yeah, you're so right in that, and I couldn't agree more. Learning to, um, be okay with not being okay, learning to actually enjoy sitting in those discomfort spaces because we know the learnings or the outcomes that it's gonna, um, that are gonna come are huge.

Jessica Maren: Yeah. Self-awareness is scary.

Sara Emmerson: Self-awareness. I love that. We can end on that. Self-awareness is scary. That's so true. So true. Well, Jessica, thank you so much for being here today. I absolutely have loved this conversation and appreciate how you just continue to remind us that resiliency isn't about pretending that life isn't hard, but it's about becoming the kind of person that can move through challenges with strength and hope and purpose. So thank you so much. Um, if people want to get ahold of you and book you to come speak at their conferences, um, what, how can we get ahold of you and point people to, to what you want them to learn or to grow from?

Jessica Maren: So, uh, jessicamirren.com is the best way to find out everything I provide. I am on Instagram. @Jessica.Marin. And there I share a lot of basically day-to-day tips on how we can really incorporate biology into our lives and use biology for our benefit. And then I also do have a workbook too that I'll offer, which is Train the Brain to See the Good: A 7-Day Biology-Based Reset. And that is retraining your brain through pattern recognition. to be more positive, really, to look for the good rather than to always look for the negative in our world.

Sara Emmerson: I love that. I need to check that out too. I love all the content that you share. I have been privileged to sit and hear your keynote, and it is mind-changing and life-changing. So book Jessica, you won't regret it. And I'm just grateful for your time today, Jessica. If you're sitting here listening to That Sounds Risky, And you're thinking, hey, I need to take that next step. I know it's time, but I don't know how. I feel like I can't do it alone. Good news. There is an option. Go to sarahemerson.com and book a coaching consultation. That's where we define what is the best next step for you, no matter what it is, and we help you take it. So please go there today. You do not have to live life alone. And I just wanna remind you that often life starts In the moments where we say the 3 words, That Sounds Risky. Hope to see you next time and to hear you next time.

Jessica Maren: Bye.